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Re: Sharing my game 1 exp at the Maplewood Hobby tourney

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:12 pm
by deFl0
So I just played in two big tournies.

My thoughts:

1. Fliers are dead. Nobody has won any big tournaments with a flier in their list in a long time. So While I hear you on 4 necron fliers being brutal, there are so many hard counters to it that people don't even run it anymore.

2. Flying monsterous creatures can be very good in some builds (think Chaos daesmons/ CSMs). With lists moving away from vehicles and MSU for that matter grounding FMCs can be an issue. Most of these lists revolve around Karios that gives the list a re roll which is always saved for the first failed grounding test. Thus you need 9sih units to ground a flier at which poitn you don't really have much in the way of units left to shoot them dead.

3. Tau. Tau are brutal, but they are beatable. Easily codex #1 or 2#. But target priority is REALLY important. So is list design. They are a great army on their own right but more importantly as allies they offer the best HQ in the game for battle brothers and a hard counter to all fliers and cover heavy armies (which are two of the strongest builds in the game). The issue with Tau is that they get extra turns, and they break the rules in all turns. So to beat tau you have to take away the rule breakers. MARKER LIGHTS. Tau without marker lights are overpriced and poor BS. Also, Tau players cheat A LOT. Learn their rules. There are a lot of very border line interpretations like HQs joining lone monstrous creatures that are a huge stretch and more TOs over rule them on. Tau will be countered soon.

4. Eldar. I think are the best Army in the game at playing 40k. (Actually Iyanden is IMO at 2000). They have sooooooooooooooooooo many good build options. That said having the right build for the tourney type is really important. Farseers, shadow seers, warlocks, guardians, writhknights, waverserpents, shadow weavers, warp spiders, swooping hawks and jet bikes are absolutely some of the best buys in the game.

5. CSMs - Yeah. The codex is boring, but there are some gems. Deamon weapons are great. Daemon weapons plus smash is retardo good. Helldrakes are also soooo good that you need a hell drake plan. It's the only flier you care about really. Thank god Tau pone and flying monstrous creatures do ok against them or they would be on every table like at the last adpeticon.

Re: Sharing my game 1 exp at the Maplewood Hobby tourney

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:21 pm
by elrodogg
Lou - The ion accelerator is the standard riptide armament. 3 shots, s7 ap2.

I agree with most of the above... The best way to counter air is not necessarily through dedicated air superiority fliers. Depending on the armor of the plane, regular ole wave serpents can do a number on them with the volume of twin-linked s7 and s6 shooting they can pump out.

Re: Sharing my game 1 exp at the Maplewood Hobby tourney

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:29 pm
by deFl0
2 poitns on earlier thread.

1. I've been playing around with 2 wraith knights. They win me games alot of the time. But they sometimes do nothing. I run them naked with a sky shield. The 4++ is important for them to survive early rounds of fire. Beyond that, the jump move is really powerful. With S10 attacks they solve a lot of problems and are great at tying things up. Also read your rules and under stand where area terrain is on the board. A monstrous creature with it's toe in area terrain is in cover. Finally, being in cover keeps things from shooting at you. Anyway, I use them a filibusters. Unless they are concentrated on there are not usually enough turns int he game to kill them if played conservatively.

2. Eldar have no problems with fliers. They do on the other hand have a lot of problems against Helldrakes. Then again some Eldar armies don't give a rats ass about helldrakes or fliers. That said Lou, yours does. The big question for you is if you are going to try to hard counter with maximizing your chances to get things like 4++ or Protect or if you just say F it and take enough of the board to have a chance to shoot them down.

Re: Sharing my game 1 exp at the Maplewood Hobby tourney

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:39 pm
by deFl0
Lou - Eldar / Tau are the best combo is the game... if you can't beat them... Tau would look good in yellow ;)

Re: Sharing my game 1 exp at the Maplewood Hobby tourney

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:42 pm
by GreyDragoon
Clearly Pete's only experience with Tau is playing against me and my cheatin' dice :) Also Pete, you may want to know that I checked with the TOs (Jay) for DaBoyz on the Riptide question. They're playing it RAW, so since the Riptide "unit" can come with two additional models it is able to be joined by ICs regardless of if it has multiple models or not in the unit. So expect to see O'Vesa stars and single Riptides joined by Farseers and buffmanders.

Pete is right though, Tau is beatable. Heck any time a Seerstar goes first, has all the powers it needs, and gets them all off I normally have a real problem on my hands. But you need to be able to take out the Marker Lights if your opponent is running them and, if possible, the Buffmander since he essentially makes one unit of your opponent's WAY more powerful than it should be (Reroll to hit when shooting, Ignore Cover, and one of the following: Tank Hunter/MonsterHunter/Stubborn/Furious Charge) and is a 4 wound Toughness 5 Armor 2 model, potentially with a 4+invuln and/or 5+ fnp. You'll normally see him with a Riptide, but there are numerous Tau, Eldar, and Space Marine units he can jump in to for devastating effect.

But yeah Lou, you're definitely gonna want a few practice games in and commit how the Tau Commander and MLs,Skyrays,Riptides, and Broadsides now work. They're getting so damned common as allies, I wouldn't be shocked to have an entire tournament of matchups include them as mains or allies. I'd be more than happy to play through my list(s) and give you the rundown on the various Tau trickery. It's definitely a different brand of trickery, and if you don't know the rules behind MLs, the buffmander, supporting fire, and the various items they can bring you're very likely to get cheated out of a win by less players with few scruples. Target priority against Tau is definitely the most important part, since nearly every tau build has a lynchpin or two in it that if you knock out you severely gimp the army. Of course, you have to get to that lynchpin first!

Re: Sharing my game 1 exp at the Maplewood Hobby tourney

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:56 pm
by WickerNipple
The Gunslinger wrote:I got it from one of the commenters.

That's even worse! Those are people who voluntarily read that site!

I don't know of anyone actually owning/fielding an ion whatsitz. :)

You don't know anyone with riptides? :)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:12 pm
by deFl0
Lol. That's not what RAW says at all... If you take a single rippy in your list he is always a single model unit... But for another thread.

But yeah. You need to get a lot of reps in in this edition. Tau have a lot more depth than it first looks. Things like spring over watch market lights raising bs on other market lights to make big weapons hit with snap shots make charges turn into extra shooting turns.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Re: Sharing my game 1 exp at the Maplewood Hobby tourney

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:49 pm
by GreyDragoon
Will put it in another thread :)

Agreed, there are horrible things you can do like chaining markerlights to get maximum benefit, using drone controllers on commanders to make packs of hits on 2 markerlights, etc. Also Skyrays can ML flyers, then allowing you to setup a squad with MLs to hit on 4s or 5s, then chain it to your real hitter who can now hit most likely on a 3+ ignoring cover if the middle squad was large enough. Things like that to guarantee the kill you actually needed.

Re: Sharing my game 1 exp at the Maplewood Hobby tourney

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:38 pm
by The Gunslinger
Thanks for the ion whatsitz explanation. :)

Great points Pete & Kenny. Thanks. Closing on our shore house this Friday, so if anyone is up for a Sat game, please make a post or PM me?

Re: Sharing my game 1 exp at the Maplewood Hobby tourney

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:40 pm
by GreyDragoon
I could probably come on in this Saturday. Want to call the store first to make sure we don't make the trip for a full store? They always seem to have events when I make the trip in on Saturdays.