Protocol: leaving your pcs in the case until last min

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Protocol: leaving your pcs in the case until last min

Postby -Sgt Dirty Dozen » Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:51 pm

My local shop of two+ years is still evolving in terms of protocols. Half the players are between new and medium. Less than half are very experienced.

Our setup protocol is not exact.
Terrain arrangement usually goes first, then the list comes out, then the army is laid out. A little bit of "show-n-tell" ensues, much like a carshow for a few minutes. It's fairly casual, and there is not an exact procedure for when the list is laid out, and when the army is laid out.

Last game I played against the shop owner, everything went along as normal, except his army stayed in its case, zipped up, behind the counter until deployment, at which time, he pulled out only one squad at time to deploy.

By that point, the terrain was obviously already placed, and I had my army out of the box arranged on the table. (I had a very hoardy WH, so it would have really lengthened the game if I pulled out one squad at a time).

I felt just a little bit exposed, exploited, and stupid.

After the game, I asked him why did he keep the cards so glued to his chest like that, and he replied "that's the only way to do it".

"Why is that?" I asked.

He said that he's noticed one fella in particular who swaps his list on the sly depending upon what he sees.
He also said that other "sly swaps" have taken place prior to deployment.

It would be easy to prevent someone from switching his typed list. But this "Peeking" issue is kinda pathetic. I never really thought about what kind of effect that has opon the game, but I do realize it has some effect.

Since warmonger's populous is obviously more experienced, I imagine this point has alrady been well thought out, and a concensus or antidote has long since been developed.

Can I have some comments on this aspect of protocol?
edit-grammar correction
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Re: Protocol: leaving your pcs in the case until last min

Postby -Thrax » Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:36 am

It sounds like you play with dickheads. Hiding and peeking and swapping? What is this shit? Sounds like people who don't have confidence in their abilities on the table that they have to rely on cheap fucking tricks in order to gain what they perceive to be an advantage.

I'd put the kibosh on that crap right away. It's just unfriendly.

T
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Re: Protocol: leaving your pcs in the case until last min

Postby -Sgt Dirty Dozen » Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:54 am

The dickhead moves are certainly not the norm there.
Up to now, I've only heard of one "sly" instance in two years.
But I do know the guy the owner mentioned, and that guy ("John") is capable of that. But I think the owner's new method is a fairly extreme response. It seems to worsen the situation.

Quote:

I'd put the kibosh on that crap right away.

RIght, but how would you suggetst I do it?
Do other shops have any kind of protocol for this?
Something that keeps it fair and friendly at the same time?
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Re: Protocol: leaving your pcs in the case until last min

Postby Flavius Infernus » Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:18 am

At the Warmonger club I've never known anybody to care one way or the other if the opponent sees their models or shows their own models before the game. Our very best players are going to win anyway whether they see/show the models in advance or not--knowing what models are coming out before deployment doesn't make that much difference to what actually happens during the game. Also most of our players play pretty much the same list week after week once it is finalized, so everybody knows what they're going to be up against. If you outplay your opponent, who cares if he knew what was in your army or tweaked his list to try and get an advantage?

As far as the typical procedure, I habitually use the one I learned when I played up at Dakka. If somebody asks to see the list at any point, I'll show it (although I don't have to). At tournaments I always ask if the opponent wants to see my list before the game (nobody ever says yes). I put my models out before deployment. When I deploy models, I summarize what they are and point out things that are modelled like command models, visible weapons or--in 40K--things like spirit stones, heavy/special weapons or summoning icons.
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Re: Protocol: leaving your pcs in the case until last min

Postby -megaman001 » Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:45 am

Perhaps I'm just an extremely friendly player, but I do the same as the gentleman above me does. I always have a printed list on hand and I tell everyone the various special rules of my units as they deploy them.

For example, "These are my ratling snipers, they all have sniper rifles and get a +1 better cover save than what they are in. So, as they are deployed here they have a ....save."

Switching your army on the sly or not telling people what are in different transports or whatever just strikes me as the general dickery that revolves around people who really only want to win the game.

Personally, I enjoy the whole experience of the game (modelling and painting more than playing to be perfectly honest). My most fun times at tournaments have been trading shop talk about new modeling tips or me fawning praise over other people's accomplishments.
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Re: Protocol: leaving your pcs in the case until last min

Postby -Sgt Dirty Dozen » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:10 pm

Damnit, you're right.
The beginning is where a big portion of the fun is.
The banter... the show-n-tell, etc.

I think I'll continue the practice of lining the army up in neat rows at the outset. But if I notice the opponent's army remaining hidden, I'll just f_ck with him.

After all, a WH army has near endless possibilities.
GK Terminators, a Russ, a Hellhound, Exorcists... all the wild cards. It's all about the fun.
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Re: Protocol: leaving your pcs in the case until last min

Postby warmongerclub » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:29 pm

Revealing each unit as they deploy is certainly a valid way to play the game. It's how they do it at that store. Is it the norm? uhhh, no. I've never played any place that had a house rule like that.

Has any ever done that to me at the Warmonger Club? Just once. Birdoff pulled out a "surprise" chaos lord on a dragon from under the table during a map campaign as his last deployment (character, obviously). I quit fantasy for about a year after that game it pissed me of so bad.

Sly swapping and whatnot is just assjackery. A different issue as far as I am concerned.

Jim
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Re: Protocol: leaving your pcs in the case until last min

Postby VectorAWX3 » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:36 pm

There's also the flipside. I say you use it on him:

Place your army on your side of the board before deployment. ALSO place a few EXTRA things. (15 goblin fanatics, 2 bassilisks, a unit of 15 sapce-wolf terminators, etc.)

He'll start deploying in long thin lines, assuming your going to bassilisk him. After deployment is over, you take the bassis and put them back in the case. "Oh no... they're not in the army list. I just had to take them out of my bag so I could get the rest of the stuff out. Why? Did you deploy differently? So sorry."
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Re: Protocol: leaving your pcs in the case until last min

Postby -Thrax » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:38 pm

They are different issues, it's true. That said, I think they might stem from a similar place of poor sportsmanship. Cerainly, the swapping is a far worse offence -- not that you'd need to worry about it in an official tourney, but in casual play, it is indeed jackassery. But the "hiding" just seems unnecessarily "sneaky" in a game where the only sneaking that should be happening is on the tabletop itself.

T
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Re: Protocol: leaving your pcs in the case until last min

Postby -the black prince » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:02 pm

Quote:
ALSO place a few EXTRA things. (15 goblin fanatics, 2 bassilisks, a unit of 15 sapce-wolf terminators, etc.)


:rollin :rollin


edit: whoops - that must have been very obscure. right quote inserted.
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