CSM EC list for review

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CSM EC list for review

Postby -Brother Suspectus » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:52 am

I have Pete and Tom to thank for this list... its been a beard puller.
'ere we go-

Rumoroso Noise Marines of the Emperors Children

HQ:

Daemon Prince, The Emperor                157

2x Close Combat Weapons                        2
Daemonic Stature                        15
Daemonic Speed                                15
Doom Siren                                        10
Daemonic Essence                        15
Daemonic Mutation                        15
Mark of Slaanesh                                10
Daemonic Aura                                        15

Chaos Lieutenant, Lord Draco                85

Chaos Bike                                        30
Power Sword                                        10
Skilled Rider                                        N/A

Troops:

Favored Unit of 6 Shooty Emperors Children        162

6 man squad                                                84
Mark of Slaanesh                                        30
6x Sonic Blasters                                        30
Infiltrate Veteran Skill                                18
Aspiring Champion

Favored Unit of 6 HTH Emperors Children                        235

6 man squad                                                        84
Mark of Slaanesh                                                30
Furious Charge                                                18
Aspiring Champion w/ Mutation and Power Fist        25
Chaos Rhino- Warp Amp, Smoke                                73

Daemon Pack: The Bitches of Slaanesh                        180
12 Daemonettes
Warp Scream and Daemonic Talons

Elites:

Favored Unit of 6 Possessed Marines                        315

6 man squad                                                        132
Daemonic Mutation                                        60
Mark of Slaanesh                                                30
Aspiring Champion with power fist                        15
Chaos Rhino- Warp Amp, Smoke, Dozer Blades        78

Heavy Support:

Predator Anti-Tank                                                130

Chaos Antique Predator                                        85
Twin Linked LasCanons                                        35
Sponson mounted Heavy Bolters                        10

Havoc Heavy Weapons Squad                        205

5 man squad                                                        70
Mark of Slaanesh                                                25
3x Blast Masters                                                60
1x Las Canon                                                        35
Tank Hunters Veteran Skill                                15

Chaos Dreadnought South of Heaven                110

Dreadnought w/ CC weapon and TL Bolter                75
Plasma Canon                                                        35

Fast Attack:

Favored Chaos Bike Squadron                                277

6x Chaos Bikers                                                204
Mark of Slaanesh                                                30
Melta Gun                                                        10
Flamer                                                                6
Aspiring Champion w/ Power Fist                                15
Skilled Rider Veteran Skill                                        12




-Brother Suspectus
 
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Re: CSM EC list for review

Postby Slyde » Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:15 am

Why is there a lascannon in with those blastmaster havoks? Seems like a waste, when another blastmaster is cheaper and fits with the rest of the squad. Actually, with only 5 men and 4 heavy weapons, you are really counting on them shooting at something else. Perhaps just leave it to the 3 blastmasters. Maybe take those points and give your LT a daemon wep so he can really tear through squads while the starture lord is drawing fire. Also, can't say I love the mix of special weps on your bike squad, but that might be more my overzealous need for squad specialization. Cant say that I'm a chaos expert, so thats just what I see at a glance.
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Re: CSM EC list for review

Postby -Brother Suspectus » Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:03 am

Slyde, that las can is for shooting through some serious tank- Leman Russ or a Land Raider. I figure if the BlastMasters cant take it out, then the las canon will.

The flamer isn't really needed, but maybee the opportunity for a template wep will present itself. None of the deamon weps looks overly attactive except maybee the Black blade. Their expensive however. I wanted to keep his costs down. There are a lot of models in this army.

Thanks for the advice.

D
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Re: CSM EC list for review

Postby Flavius Infernus » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:58 am

-combat drugs: only slaanesh characters can take them. I prefer em to regular buffs because you can buff up what you want depending on what you're going to fight: more attacks for killing grunts, weapon skill and strength for other characters.

-talons on possessed will do more kills on average than mutation

-EC dreads are the only dreads that can take a doom siren. It lets them charge into cover and attack in initiative order, ulike all other dreads. Also if the dread has warp amp then anything fighting it makes break tests at -3 leadership.

-I agree on the one lascannon in the havoc unit. The predators are enough lascannon firepower (and a meltagun is the best thing for killing a landraider anyway). With all blastmasters your havoc unit can move & shoot 8X str5+1 shots--deadly to speeder squadrons or ork/DE tranports.
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Re: CSM EC list for review

Postby deFl0 » Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:14 am

Hmmm... So many things to say. Ok first off define the roll of the squad and match weapons to special abilities.

DP - Good cheap prince. One new development with chaos is that deamonic weapons no longer come out of the demonic category. CCW is still a great cheap alternative, but what is his purpose. Give him a role. At the moment he is low cost and pretty much only good at killing troops. I think the slaanesh DP is one of the best character killers with a dread axe or a dark blade and strength. Jack up the I and you will crushing things like librarians, which is truly the only treat short of small arms fire you really have.


Chaos Lieutenant, Lord Draco 85

Chaos Bike 30
Power Sword 10
Skilled Rider N/A

Again... This guys what does he do? If you give him a personal icon or some melta weapons he's doing somehting. As he is, he is an expensive aspirign champion.


Troops:

Favored Unit of 6 Shooty Emperors Children 162

6 man squad 84
Mark of Slaanesh 30
6x Sonic Blasters 30
Infiltrate Veteran Skill 18
Aspiring Champion

And again. Why infiltrate? The guns do not get better at short range, so what is there purpose? If they have melta guns they have a reson to infiltrate.

Favored Unit of 6 HTH Emperors Children 235

6 man squad 84
Mark of Slaanesh 30
Furious Charge 18
Aspiring Champion w/ Mutation and Power Fist 25
Chaos Rhino- Warp Amp, Smoke 73

Third why would you give a squad that you paid for furious charge a power fist? You just jacked up his strength and I. USe the points with a power weapon.

Daemon Pack: The Bitches of Slaanesh 180
12 Daemonettes
Warp Scream and Daemonic Talons

A second unit of these would do this list wonders. Maybe even consider mounted deamonettes. I foung official rules are still on the GW website, which make them legal in my mind, even if the magazine article on them doesn;t count any more.

Elites:

Favored Unit of 6 Possessed Marines 315

6 man squad 132
Daemonic Mutation 60
Mark of Slaanesh 30
Aspiring Champion with power fist 15
Chaos Rhino- Warp Amp, Smoke, Dozer Blades 78

Closer... First talons are better. Second Can they take an aspiring champion??? Also if you are taking the amp, take the dirge.


Heavy Support:

Predator Anti-Tank 130

Chaos Antique Predator 85
Twin Linked LasCanons 35
Sponson mounted Heavy Bolters 10

I would take mutation on this too, and although it's not goign to be popular on this thread a the havok launcher, maybe extra armor too. Or alertantively all las?

Havoc Heavy Weapons Squad 205

5 man squad 70
Mark of Slaanesh 25
3x Blast Masters 60
1x Las Canon 35
Tank Hunters Veteran Skill 15

4 blastmasters... You've coem this far, why risk screwing your comp. I knwo it's small but it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Chaos Dreadnought South of Heaven 110

Dreadnought w/ CC weapon and TL Bolter 75
Plasma Canon 35

Agreed on the flamer that lets you attack at initiave in combat, plus I would tak ethe amp and dirge.

Fast Attack:

Favored Chaos Bike Squadron 277

6x Chaos Bikers 204
Mark of Slaanesh 30
Melta Gun 10
Flamer 6
Aspiring Champion w/ Power Fist 15
Skilled Rider Veteran Skill 12

Screw the flamer. 2 meltas.

Overall, define the roles that you wish to fill. A couple questions still need to be answered, like how to you kill terminatiors? How do you kill a basalisk or defiler? How do you kill another natsty HTH monster like a carnifex or 6 carnifex or another DP or a librarian. Why bikes, infiltrators and rhinos with only one squads of deamons. Why no defiler?

Pete
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Re: CSM EC list for review

Postby -Brother Suspectus » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:03 am

Thanks for the help.

well the tip about possessed and mutation vs. talons sounds good. This will involve a last minute conversion to make it wysiwig. I dont know if I can do that. I think I'm going to play with the mutation unless I get paint inspirational. The best part is that will give me an extra 15 points to play with. And I like every one else need points.

Which leads me to most of Petes suggestions. Thanks Pete, did I mention that I was building a 1850 point army? Geesh Ill need at a 2k army with all the buffing up your suggesting.

I like where your going with roles about units. The DP, he's a troop killer. Why? Cause troops equal scoring units and thats what I'm after these days. By the way, how many attacks would he get? 5 or 6? Base 3, 2 CC weps and one mutation...? 6 right? And since his attacks ignore armor saves doesn't that make him a killer of IC's too? He should be able to mosh a librarian preety well I think.

Our freind Draco is going to ride with the other bikers and try to be bad ass. Will he do it? I dont know but on paper it sounds ok. he's not that expensive... I'm not sure about him.

Now infiltrate on those shooty boyz. I want them out front, they can soften stuff up if I can place them in cover and they shoot 3 times if they are dug in and dont move. They can be expendable, and will be getting shot at while I rush those Rhino's loaded with Goodness up. Thats the idea at least.

Great point with the HTH squad. I think I'm PF crazy. All the kids are doing it these days. OK, I like the Power Sword instead of PF, it gives me and extra 5 points anyway. I may have a modeling problem with this change.

Ahh the Deamonettes. Love them. Ill be including another 6 or 12 on my next list for this army. Right now its a good idea, but I dont have the models done. If you have ever painted Deamonettes you will note that all arms must be pinned. They take FOREVER... wine wine.. wine...

The havocs.. well I hear you Pete on comp, but with Tank Hunting ability it make the blast masters ap9 and the Las ap 10. Baby. Put them up in building, near the middle and reach out and touch someone! Namely the pesky Russ or Vindicator or whatever is big and you dont want near you. I can think of a few Eldar tanks too that will deserve their special attention. Ohh and Ill have to roll like Company 13 to have an unsuccesfull turn with them. I wouldn't mind putting another man in that group to eat up wounds, but points are scarce!

That Pred is a tempting low cost tank target. If you let him run around then your tempting las canon fate, if you give him attention well he's only 130 points. I also love the model. Same thing applies with the Dread. He's really not that bad ass... but then again he can be. You gotta deal with him. And while your dealing with the Pred and Dread, those Rhinos are up your arse. Hopefully.

The Bikes. Im not sure. I think I'm going to use them as reserve troops. Where there needed they will go. Draco will go with them, they should pack a nice CC punch. I have since dropped the flamer. On your say so, Pete Im gonna drop the flamer and take a melta. Why not? Tom says I can tank hunt till Vostroyans come home.

Thanks for the help again, I wish I could test out this list more- but theres a damn opening I have to attend at my wifes museum thursday and I'm expected. I have tested aspects of this list- but not the list as a whole. I'm sure about everything but the Bikes.

A few tidbits I have picked up from re-reading the rules (which I have learned is key).

-I get a plus one on the summoning roll becasue the bitches are a multiple of 6. Thats nice.

-I have been placing the center of the burst template over the icon, not touching it to the side to the icon model. That can be an extra 3 inchs. Who knew? Now I do.

D
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Re: CSM EC list for review

Postby Flavius Infernus » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:40 pm

Quote:

By the way, how many attacks would he get? 5 or 6? Base 3, 2 CC weps and one mutation...? 6 right? And since his attacks ignore armor saves doesn't that make him a killer of IC's too? He should be able to mosh a librarian preety well I think.



3 base, +1 for the second ccw (the first one doesn't count), +1 for mutation = 5 attacks. 6 on the charge.

The ultimate fighting combo for a slaaneshi character IMO is this guy:
(without stature)
combat drugs
daemonic strength
dark blade
daemonic mutation
doom siren, bolt pistol + defense & mobility gifts to taste

(with stature)
combat drugs
dark blade
mutation
doom siren, ccw + defense & mobility gifts to taste

For killing characters, these guys can use the +1 str from combat drugs, the +1 mutation/stature, and the +2 dark blade to go to str 8. That means if *any* hit gets past the invulnerable save will insta-kill those librarians and other T4 characters--before they get to strike. You can also use the drugs to go +1 WS on the non-statured version so you're hitting other characters on 3s.

Or, for killing troops, either one of these guys can drug up with +1 attack (for a total of 7 attacks on the charge) and ignore first unsaved wound and rip through groups of grunts--attacking first, hitting on 3s, killing on 2's--without even necessarily needing an invulnerable save.
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Re: CSM EC list for review

Postby -Brother Suspectus » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:20 am

Tom I'm getting shivers up and down my spine reading those specs. Wit Combat Drugs you can fill multiple roles depending on what you put in the needle.

I always knew deep down that drugs were the way to go;-)

As long as I dont pull a Kurt Cobain and overdose I should be fine. Ohh wait, a calidus names courtney killed cobain. Well you get the point.

Thanks-

D
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