Orks in Mega Armor + Vehicles

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Re: Orks in Mega Armor + Vehicles

Postby WickerNipple » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:51 am

Quote:
I interpret GW no longer publishing such documents as an admission that the rules no longer apply.


You might, but they don't always.
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Re: Orks in Mega Armor + Vehicles

Postby -megaman001 » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:58 am

Then what is a new player to do?

I mean, if someone just picks up 40k to start building an army, buying the books that GW has on shelf (their codex, the 40k fourth edition rules, cities of death, armageddon, eye of terror) - then checks online for appopriate FAQs and official errata, but fails to check eBay for out of publish documents?

It'd be pretty weaksauce for someone to say at a tournament "Well, because a book written 2 years ago, under the previous system states this - and GW has not officially declared those rules to not apply - then you can't use your army list as built."
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Re: Orks in Mega Armor + Vehicles

Postby -Thrax » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:10 am

"Then what is a new player to do?"

Either suck it up and buy a new army, or go on Ebay and buy the out of print books. And that's it. It makes sense in a business context for them to do this -- they phase out sections that they are no longer interested in developing.

It's ironic that you mention Armageddon and Eye in your list of books on shelves because in a year they'll be gone from the rules. You can bet the farm on that. It's already happened at English GTs.

"It'd be pretty weaksauce for someone to say at a tournament "Well, because a book written 2 years ago, under the previous system states this - and GW has not officially declared those rules to not apply - then you can't use your army list as built.""

But this wouldn't happen, at least, not to anyone who knew a thing they were talking about.

If GW has not declared that the rules do not apply, then they apply. Simple as that. There are many ways that they can go about saying this -- either declaring them obsolete, or by overriding them with newer rules.

If anyone tries to tell you that the rules don't apply simply because the book is out of print, then they're talking out their ass.

T.
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Re: Orks in Mega Armor + Vehicles

Postby -megaman001 » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:18 am

So by that logic, every rule ever published in a GW text - that has not been publically or officially over ruled, re-written, or removed from the game - applies to every game of 40k being played.

That is, we're liable for anything GW has ever written unless GW specifically states that previous rules don't apply.

That's a lot of volumes of text one would have to master to know exactly whats going on.
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Re: Orks in Mega Armor + Vehicles

Postby -Thrax » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:30 am

No. Didn't you read my post? The publication of a new codex under the same name constitutes an "overwriting"; the publication of a new edition of rules constitutes an "overwriting".

Between these, clarifications can be made through the channels of CA and FAQs.

GW's problem isn't that there's confusion about which rules are extant -- nobody is trying to use the 3rd Ed SM Codex rules that weren't mentioned in the new SM edition, unless these rules apply to OTHER older codices (like Wolves or Angels). Most of the time, these rules are clarified in FAQs -- for example, unit costs and unit types.

GW's rules problem is that they leave too many ambiguous ends unexplained with rules that are ALREADY THERE, and which nobody debates the existence of. Of course, some confusion does come up when things like wargear effects are contradicted by new descriptions of effects in the new edition (like rending retardedness, or whether chaos terminators shooting combi-bolters can charge).

But that's not what you're describing. Your question deals with a codex that has no new version, and which had many rules clarified. The Ork question you had was apparently explained in CA. Have you seen anything else that would invalidate this official ruling? No? Then it's official, and stands, regardless of the availability of the CA book.

T.
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Re: Orks in Mega Armor + Vehicles

Postby -megaman001 » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:54 am

Doesn't the advent of 4th Edition nullify what Chapter Approved did? If Chapter Approved 2004 was written as an addition to Third Edition rules, then they clearly cannot apply to 4th Edition?

Furthermore, how much sense does it make for GW to create Chapter Approved 2004 - institute this ridiculous roundabout way of saying how many Mega Armored Nobz can be in a Trukk (requiring no less than four texts) - then discontinue publication?

All it serves to do is leave the Ork rules even further in ambiguity by clarifying, then discontinuing the text itself?
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Re: Orks in Mega Armor + Vehicles

Postby -megaman001 » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:59 am

So, after finally torrenting the text itself. Chapter Approved 2004 declares that Mega Armor counts as ONE space in Open Topped Vehicles, and TWO spaces in closed top vehicles.

Kind of makes this all a moot discussion.

Further discussion available at : dysartes.com/phpBB2/viewt...mor+armour
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Re: Orks in Mega Armor + Vehicles

Postby WickerNipple » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:00 am

:rollin
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Re: Orks in Mega Armor + Vehicles

Postby -Thrax » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:10 am

Sheesh.

T
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Re: Orks in Mega Armor + Vehicles

Postby savaughn » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:25 am

Quote:
Where are you getting that from, Sav? The only thing that would invalidate them is a proclamation from GW or a rule which overrules something from the CA book. On this issue, none of those considerations apply, from what I can see.


Neither the FAQs/clarifications from the CA book, the GW published PDFs, or any of the rest of the 3rd edition rule FAQs have any relevance on 4th edition.

Across the board they have all been superceded by the new FAQs. When GW publishes new material, this replaces the old. This is kind of like trying to argue that the 2nd edition rules or FAQs have some vague kind of relevance.
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