Page 1 of 2

My List (however incomplete ...)

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:51 pm
by -Demigod Complex
Okay so this is my first post as well as readjusted list. Background - I have been playing with my 13th Co. and liking what I've been doing thus far (successes and losses) and upon counceling at the post game watering hole I've come to the grand decision that I should focus my army to the Space Wolf main codex. So here is the list I've come up with but I need help picking a final option for my heavy/ anti-tank option, and I'll spit out my ideas at the end.

HQ
Wolf Lord - T. Armor, St. Bolter

V. Dread - Assault C., H. Flamer


Troops
Grey Slayers (10) - Bolters, CC

Grey Slayers (10) - Bolters, CC

Grey Slayers (10) - Bolt pistol, CC

Blood Claws (15) - Bolt pistol, CC


Elites
Scouts (5) - Sniper R

Wolf Guard BG (4) - T. Armor, St. Bolters, Assault C.


Fast A.
Land Speeder Tornado (3)

Heavy
???

Here inlies my problem ... I think that I will need more Anti-tank suff besides my Speeders. If my math is correct I have about 300-350 pts. left to play with.

Option 1 - I've been playing with the idea of a Razorback with a TL Lascannon and two longfangs w/ lascannons, this leaves me with room for drop pods for my HQ and some troops.

Option 2 - Another squad of Speeders and another dread (possibly with a missile launcher and lascannon) At the cost of a few, like 8, troops.

Option 3 - A Landraider Crusader, a couple of drop pods for my HQ, and several prayers that in the ensuing madness Russ comes back to assist his sons (and my hand) in taking out a couple of Heavy slots of my opponent.


I'm looking for thoughts and ideas to maximise my list, lemme know what you think.

Jordan

Re: My List (however incomplete ...)

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:18 pm
by -thx10050
Alright, this army list has some issues, so let's start with HQ on down.

A quick personal note: I think the SW army list is perfectly designed for drop pods, so if you can, drop pod everything. I used to play a pretty successful proxy SW drop pod army in college and I've written out my suggestions to reflect this.

1) HQ:

Wolf Lord is fine, so is his the Terminator armor. But where's the ubiquitous (and extremely good) Frost Blade, Wolf Pelt, Wolftooth Necklace perhaps, and a Runic Charm, to re-roll that first failed armor save? Where's his Belt of Russ?

What does his Bodyguard have for close combat weapons? Their bare hands? I'd say give two power weapons and two chain fists. Get them all some Runic Charms and Wolf Pelts. Some Necklaces, to basically always hit on a 3+, wouldn't be bad either.

Ven Dread is fine, but he needs smoke and extra armor, plus a drop pod.

2) Troops:

First off, where the heck are all the power weapons SW squads are known for??

Drop the squads to 8 Marines each, add melta guns or flamers (I prefer meltas for drop podders and you've got plenty of bolter backup for anti-personnel fire, but a flamer or two is always useful). A couple of plasma pistols in each squad would work well too and doesn't hurt your close combat ability.

Add two power fists per squad (my own personal preference, though a power weapon and a fist also seem to work well). Pack Leaders with power weapons (not fists, maybe lightning claws), Wolftooth Necklaces and Wolf Pelts, and perhaps combi-flamers would be a good addition, but would be expensive, points-wise. It's your call.

Get these squads drop pods. You're too slow and have too many short range weapons to have any hope of reaching the enemy and dealing enough damage. Plus your lack of power weapons hurts against other assault armies, despite True Grit.

Finally, I'd also drop the BP/CCW squad and change the Blood Claws to another Grey Hunter pack armed with bolters/CCWs, but that's personal preference.

3) Elites:

A horrible, horrible set up for SW Scouts. Get these guys a couple of plasma pistols, a melta gun, some melta bombs, and have them start taking down armor. A couple of power weapons and a Pack Leader with a thunder hammer, bolt pistol, and a Wolftooth Necklace and Wolf Pelt can make them a potent CC squad too, but I prefer the cheaper, still versatile anti-tank loadout.

I noted the Wolf Guard changes above, since I assume they'll be accompanying the Wolf Lord.

4) Fast Attack:

Tornados are fine, but if you want, get two of them in separate squadrons, and then add a squad of 4-6 Blood Claw Bikers with two power fists, led by a Frost Blade-wielding Battle Leader on a bike with some other equipment, like runic armor, a Wolf Pelt, a Runic Charm, and a Necklace. Maybe add a flamer or melta gun to the squad as well. This makes for a fast and hard-hitting combat unit to support your squads once they pod in, or to tie up/destroy a key enemy unit. Plus, you'll need a third HQ anyways, if you're playing at 1850 pts.

In terms of my own suggestions, which again are based on a drop pod perspective, I'm not sure if you'll have enough points left for any HS choices, or even if my suggestions will fit. You might have to drop the Blood Claw infantry pack for points or the Grey Hunter BP/CCW pack. Wargear can always be adjusted for personal preference and points limit.

I hope that helps, or at least gives you some good ideas.

Re: My List (however incomplete ...)

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:57 pm
by deFl0
All good points!!! In most armies you cheap on the wargear, in SWs they wargear makes the list because you have to take the characters anyway.

I also second the drop pods. True grit is great with drop pods. You drop and shoot a bunch of plasma guns, bolters etc. Then you opponent has to chose to shoot or assault you, and in either case it's not pretty.

The one thing about space wolves is the tank hunting. You simply shouldn;t do it with long fangs. They are dead weight in the lis tin my mind. You need alternatives, like drop podding squads with meltas, scouts comming on the back board edge with meltas, drop podding venerable dreadnought.

Also, it's expensive but I've awlays like the land raider crusader with a slew of blood claws. I've even seen people put the chaplain in there. If everything goes well you have a ton of distractions your opponent has to deal with (ie guys comming on the back board edge, drop pods, speeders etc) that a landraider can actually run around fairly unmolested.

Especially if you hide it a turn or two and use it for late game counter assult or objective crushing.

Finally the space wolf bikes can be pretty bad ass too, but they are defaintely a scalpel unit. they are usually better used to end combats that have already started as opposed to starting combats on their own.

The space wolf is a timing list more than any other marine chapter. Get the elements going at the right time and you can beat anything in the game.

Pete

Re: My List (however incomplete ...)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:21 am
by -Demigod Complex
Try this on for size

HQ
W. Lord - T. Armor, S. Bolter, WT Necklace, F Blade, Belt of Russ

V. Dread - H. Flamer, Assault C, Smoke L, Xtra A

WG Battle Leader - SM Bike, F Blade, WT Necklace, Rune Armor


Troops
8 Grey H - Bolters, Melta, 2 PF

8 Grey H - Bolters, Melta, 2 PF

8 Grey H - Bolters, Melta, PF, PW


Elites
4 Scouts - Melta, 2 Plasma P, Melta Bombs for all

3 Wolf Guard - 3 Combi Flamer, 3 WT Necklace, 3 PW

4 WG Bodyguard - 4 T. Armor, 3 S. Bolter, Assault C, 2 PF, 2 PW, 4 WT Necklace


Fast A
3 BC Bikes - 2 PF, Melta

LS Tornado - H Flamer, Multi Melta

LS Tornado - Assault C, Heavy bolter

Total 1745



My bad about the last list w/o specifics I had a couple of the items (admittedly not all) so this time I went ahead and posted the entire thing with my adjustments from the suggestions.

This is the list before Drop Pods and I do want to add the Pods!

Thoughts? Comments? Ridicule?

Jordan

Re: My List (however incomplete ...)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:15 am
by -thx10050
Before I comment further, this army list is much, much better. The Wolf's actually got teeth this time!

Alright, let's break this down again:

1) HQ:

Wolf Lord = This guy looks a lot meaner now. It's a toss up between the Necklace and the Pelt really, so it comes down to personal choice. I'd go with the Necklace, as you did. He needs a Charm though.

Ven Dread = Now he's good to go. Just needs a drop pod. ;)

Battle Leader = A nice fighty character. Don't forget to add a bolt pistol for the +1 attack; SM bikes aren't limited to only one one-handed weapon now, so you can use two one-handed weapons. This guy could use a Charm as well.

2) Troops:

These three squads look good to go now. Just add drop pods and microwave on high for two minutes...

I forget how adding Pack Leaders to squads work, but if they're like Veteran Sergeants (contributed to scoring status of a unit), then either drop the squads to 7 each or increase them to 9 each, to make room for the Pack Leaders and to keep even numbers, which are pretty key in 4th Edition. It looks like you're a bit strapped for points for pods, so I'd say drop the Grey Hunters to 7 each.

3) Elites:

Scouts look awesome. All the equipment you need for them to start threatening armor by using OBEL.

The Wolf Guard for the Grey Hunters could use Pelts instead of Necklaces (or both if you've got the points). Otherwise, they're good to go.

The Lord's bodyguard need two assault cannons. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. 2 assault cannons. Power fists and power weapons look fine, but they need Runic Charms moreso then Pelts or Necklaces. And a drop pod of course. :)

4) Fast Attack:

Make the BC Bikers a squad of 4. Remember that for SM at least, even numbers are pretty key. And the attached Battle Leader doesn't contribute to their scoring, since he's an IC. Otherwise, that's a nasty squad when charging.

Keep both Land Speeders with assault cannons: much more versatile.

It's shaping up to be a much better army list than before. Much better. 5 dropping units, 1 OBEL unit, 1 fast-moving assaulty unit, and 2 speeders makes for an awesome fast-moving attack force. Plus you have 9 scoring units to start with, which is great, in my opinion. If need be, you can drop a speeder for more points for pods or whatnot.

Re: My List (however incomplete ...)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:41 am
by deFl0
All joking aside you are paying a premium for your marines to have counter attack and true grit. These are only useful in assult. Walking your wolf guard makes no sense. Drop pods, rhinos, landraider, razor back etc are requires to use them to any effect.

Otherwise, they are just dead weight in you list.

Pete

Re: My List (however incomplete ...)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:32 am
by -Demigod Complex
I'm starting to see it now, no worries. I am going to take the Drop Pods (as soon as I find/ make some) Thanks for the inspiration I was spinning my wheels but only burning up gears. I'll be around on Thurs if anyone wants to grab a game.

Oh yeah, good luck at the Necro everyone!



Jordan

Re: My List (however incomplete ...)

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:20 am
by deFl0
Thanks Jordan. Good luck on the SW list. Let us know how it progresses. 4th ed is all about out manuvering your opponent now and applying force effectively. It's been shown in many tournies that drop pod marine armies are increadbily powerful and I think the nature of the SW list makes them one of the premium drop pod lists especially with their ability to take compliment units like scouts and bikes that hit hard in hth.

Pete

Re: My List (however incomplete ...)

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:10 am
by -The Philosophical Kensai
Dc,

My two cents are similar to everyone elses- Drop Pods!

Tornados are cool... but expect them to get dropped in a hurry if those pods don't come fast to tie up enemy units.

I thought the scouts were cool originally... but then standard scouts with SR are damn useful. Just not in a SW army.

Bikers are a mistake in a DP list- iirc, they cannot take pods and if the pods are late, wasted points. I would have used the points to get more speeders....

Speaking of the speeders, make the Tornados either H-Flamer or AsC's... I find MM's on a multweapon platform to be a waste- they are better utilized on a normal 50 point speeder and in Pairs. If you can shake loose the points, I'd go with two Tornado squads with AsC/HB combo and a MM Speeder pair as one unit.

You are built for gunning down heretics and other such scum- stick with it The trio of loose WG should hang with a bikeless WG B-leader as a DP Command Whuparse element- hopefully not dropping in alone without support.

I think you might find these suggestions improve things overall- giving you some more points to spend towards pods

Re: My List (however incomplete ...)

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:18 am
by -thx10050
Personally, I disagree with your suggestions, especially the loose WGPLs w/ a walking BL in a pod and losing the bikes. SW BC bikers are awesome and hit extremely hard when led by a BL or any character. They can always hide with the land speeders until the first pods come in and/or turbo boost from terrain piece to terrain piece. And they give you a fast-moving scoring unit in an army that's very slow once it lands. All the walking PLs and BL will do is get shot for easy VPs, whereas a PL per Grey Hunter squad and a bike-mounted BL for the BC bikers are a much better use for the points.

Finally, I don't think the army list is designed for gunning down anything: it's designed for CQB: drop and rapid fire, assault turn two if possible, or beat the crap out of enemies that assault you when you drop. Plus, SW can't make an effective shooty army to begin with. They have all the tools needed to kick butt in close combat; that's where SW belong.