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Provisionary Dwarfs of Chaos Errata and FAQ for 8th ed WFB

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:44 pm
by KevinC
This is an updated version II Provisionary Dwarfs of Chaos Errata/update for Warhammer 8th edition. NEW CHANGES AS OF FEB 25, 2011.In the coming few months, we shall post a final Errata/Update followed shortly thereafter by a 2.0 Dwarfs of Chaos PDF that takes into account the corrections and updated needed for the 8th edition of Warhammer.

Please feel free to comment here, add suggestions or ask to clarify something I may have missed. The main purpose of this provisionary errata/update is to allow Chaos Dwarf players to use the Dwarfs of Chaos army list right away in their 8th edition games and also to get feedback on how Dwarfs of Chaos perform in 8th edition.

Lastly, my intent is not to make any major changes to the list, unless it really needs to be changed as a result of 8th edition (either because something does not make sense or has become too powerful under the new rules, etc).

Regarding Blunderbusses, I am extremely pleased how they currently work. They are a short ranged weapon, with potential to cause a lot of destruction (just as they should) and the rules are quite simple to use. There short range and targeting rules can be exploited by a canny general to prevent or divert their firing. Having said that, feel free to comment here if you disagree with me.

As always all feed back is welcomed.

• Dwarfs of Chaos armies belong to the Forces of Destruction army alignment.

• Ignore page 66 Choosing an army. The rules for choosing an army are described in the Warhammer rulebook.

• Dwarfs of Chaos models that may choose magic items may choose items from either the Dwarfs of Chaos army book and/or the Common Magic Items described in the Warhammer rulebook. Ignore the reference to Warhammer Armies: Warriors of Chaos on page 76.

Errata: Master and Servant, Only Chaos Dwarf Warriors and Annihilators counts toward the minimum 25% Core unit choice requirement.

Errata: A Giant Wolf for a Hobgoblin Overseer should be 12 points, not 18 pts.

Errata: Animosity: Units must test for Animosity in the Start of Turn sub-phase of each of the controlling player’s turn.

Errata: Daemon Engines are not classed as Monsters; instead they count as Monstrous Beasts though ignore the Swiftstride special rule.

Errata: Daemonsmiths
• 95 points.
• May take up to 75 pts worth of magic items, including an Arcane Item.
• The Arcane Alchemy special rule is completely removed (i.e. no bound spell, not a wizard).
• The Daemon Weapon Bound Daemon table is replaced with the following table:
1 = - 1 Strength, -1 Toughness
2-3 = +2 Initiative, +1 Weapon Skill
4-5 = +2 Attacks
6 = +1 Strength, +1 Toughness

If a Daemonsmith has joined a Daemon Engine or Hell Cannon, he never takes wounds unless he is the last handler alive and may make armour/ward saves as normal. If the Daemon Engine or Hell Cannon is destroyed, the Daemonsmith uses the other handlers as living shields escaping the disaster unharmed. The Daemonsmith is not removed and fights on as normal.

Chaos Dwarf Warriors
• May have Chaos Armour for +2 pt/model.

Chaos Dwarf Annihilators
• 11 points per model.
• Must be five models wide in order to fire.
• May have shields for +2 pt/model.
• May have Chaos Armour +1 pts/model.

• An entire unit may have Daemon Eyes +20 points.

Hobgoblin Stikkas
• An entire unit may have Daemon Eyes +20 points.

Hobgoblin Spear Chukkas
* Have 3 Hobgoblin crew, rather than just 2.

Obsidian Guard
• 11 pts/model.

Earthshaker Cannon
• Change "halve their Movement value" to "halve their TOTAL Movement".

• 4 Wounds.
• Daemoneaters have the Impact Hits (D6+2) special rule. The Whirlwind of Death special rule is changed to the following: On turns where the Daemoneater is in combat, but did not charge, it causes D3+2 S5 automatic hits. These hits can never affect units fighting in the Daemoneater’s rear.

Kollossus Daemon Tower 300 pts/model

Kollossus M:3 WS:- BS:- S:5 T:7 W:10 I:- A:- LD:-
Annihilator M:- WS:4 BS:3 S:3 T:- W:- I:2 A:1 LD:9

Troop Type: Monster.

Armour Save: 3+

Special Rules
Large Target; Terror; Impact Hits (D6+1); Unbreakable; Slave Lords

Daemonic War Platform
The Kollossus Daemon Tower counts as a Monster and has a crew of 10 Chaos Dwarf Annihilators with their own characteristics, but are treated as a single model.

The Movement value of the Kollossus is always used when the unit moves. The Chaos Dwarf crew uses their own Weapon Skill, Strength, Initiative and Attacks when attacking in combat. The crew may attack any model in base contact with the Kollossus. In combat, models rolling ‘To Hit’ the Kollossus use the Weapon Skill of the majority of the crew. Impact hits use the Strength of the Kollossus (S5).

In the Shooting phase, the crew counts as having a 360 arc and may fire their blunderbusses as normal using their own Ballistic Skill. Note that as the crew does not have ranks, their Blunderbusses will always be S3.

All hits upon the Kollossus Daemon Tower are resolved using the Tower’s Toughness and Wounds.

Daemon Phlegm (same)

Siege Engine: The Daemon Tower is idea for assaulting castle walls and buildings. When making an assault on a building the entire crew counts as the assault party and gain the Always Strikes First and Devastating Charge special rules until the end of the assault.

Character Mount
As described in the army list entries, a Chaos Dwarf Overlord, Slavemaster or Daemonsmith may ride atop a Kollossus Daemon Tower eventhough the Kollossus is Unbreakable. Only a single character may ride a single Daemon Tower. When this option is taken, the Kollossus counts as a Ridden Monster as described in the Warhammer rulebook, however, if the character is slain the Kollossus tower does not take a Monster Reaction test.

Hobgoblin Hordes:
If the army general is a Hobgoblin character, the army may include Goblin Shamans chosen from Warhammer Armies: Orcs & Goblins (Only Common Goblin Shamans, not Night Goblins).

Errata: Inferno Golems, The Face of Hashut. The Face of Hashut model is never removed due the Last Stand rule that affects regular standard bearers.

Errata: Lammasu, Sorcerous Exhalation, change to: A High Priest riding a Lammasu ignores his first miscast. The spell is still cast with irresistible force, though the Priest does not roll on the Miscast Table. Further Miscasts roll on the Miscast Table as normal.

Errata: Hailfire Gun has the Magical Attacks special rule.

Errata: Arcane Apparatus: Change "A High Priest" to "A model".

Errata:Holocaust Cloak: The wearer of the cloak adds +1 to the casting result when casting spells (including bound spells).

Errata: Daemon Bane, change to: (Power Level 6) and contains the Banishment spell from the Lore of Light.

Errata: Astragoth’s Helm of Hashut. This contains the Fireball spell from the Lore of Fire, though causes 2D6 hits, rather than D6 hits.

Errata: The Bull Horn of Uzkulak, change to: (Power Level 3).

Errata: Banner of Daemonic Tides, change to: (Power Level 5) If successfully cast, the unit carrying the banner may immediately move 2D6”. This move is treated exactly in the same way as a normal move made in the Movement Phase. If an enemy unit is within charge range, the unit may charge the enemy unit following all the normal charge rules (i.e. the enemy unit may make a normal charge reaction, etc).

Errata: Zukka Ugzod’s Mother Crushers may choose to use either their Great axes or two choppas as the start of each combat round.

Errata: Armour of the Furnace, the armour provides a 2+ ward save against flaming attacks rather than being completely immune to them.

Errata: Axe of Zhrazak, the weapon provides the bearer with +2 Strength and the Always Strikes First special rule.

Dwarfs of Chaos FAQ

Do characters in a unit being shot at by Blunderbusses get a "Look Out Sir!" roll, are they treated as rank and file, or do they get hit on a 4+?

-------------Characters and Champions benefit from “Look Out Sir!” and a successful 2+ “Look Out Sir!” roll will completely negate the hit, rather than hitting another model.

If a character wearing Armor of the Furnace rides a Kollossus Tower, does it have a 2+ ward save against flaming attacks?

-------------Yes, the Kollossus gains a 2+ ward save against flaming attacks.

Do Sneaking Gits attacking in the enemy’s flank/rear receive the bonus attacks of +1/+2 (respectively) for each Sneaky Git model or just once for the entire unit?

------------Each Sneaky Git model gains the extra attack(s).

If a Character riding demon tower has Amulet of Hashut how many attacks do anihilators get +1 total or + 1 per anihilator( or per wound), should it be 1 total as its 1 model.

-----------The entire crew become subject to Frenzy.

Dwarfs of Chaos Troop Types classifications

Zhatan the Black, Un
Gorduz Backstabber, In
Astragoth, In
Molocharoar, Mo
High Priest of Hashut, In
Chaos Dwarf Overlord, In
Great Bull Centaur, Ca
Hobgoblin Chieftain, In
Rykarth, In
Morgok, In
Slavemaster, In
Daemonsmith, In
Great Horn Bull Centaur, Ca
Hobgoblin Overseer, In

Giant Wolf, WB
Warg, WB
Lammasu, Mo
Great Taurus, Mo

Chaos Dwarf Warrior, In
Annihilator, In
Eruption Gun, MB
Hobgoblin, In
Hobgoblin Stikkas, In
Hobgoblin Wolf Riders, Ca
Rabble, In

Chaos Dwarf Death Rocket, MB
Obsidian Guard, In
Hobgoblin Spear Chukka, WM
Bull Centaurs, Ca
Daemoneaters, Ch
Hobgoblin Sneaky Gits, In
Earthshaker Cannon, MB
Inferno Golems, MI
Kollossus Daemon Tower, Mo
Zukka Ugzod’s Mother Crushers, In

Re: Provisionary Dwarfs of Chaos Errata and FAQ for 8th ed W

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:43 pm
by njpc
Do characters in a unit being shot at by Blunderbusses get a "Look Out Sir!" roll, are they treated as rank and file, or do they get hit on a 4+?
-------------Characters and Champions benefit from “Look Out Sir!” and a successful 2+ “Look Out Sir!” roll will completely negate the hit, rather than hitting another model.

I'm happy you've added this in. I took a Blunderbluss Blast from Larry's Blunderbuss unit this weekend and realized how deadily they were. I was a little surprised by that lack of look out sir from 7th. Thanks for correcting this> I was planning on putting a "at least 4+ it" based on the hail shot nature.

1 followup from a conversation. I do agree with Larry on the points cost for the Golems. 65 a pop is a lot to invest in a unit of 3, then adding in upgrade. Taking all things into considering with armor save, 3 attacks st/to 5, I think 60 pts would be fair, just some thoughts from the outside. Its a minor dip, but i'm just thinking on Par with Treekin and other monster sized units.

Re: Provisionary Dwarfs of Chaos Errata and FAQ for 8th ed W

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:55 pm
by KevinC
Thanks for the feedback Paul. Did you feel that the Blunderbusses where too powerful?

Kevin out

Re: Provisionary Dwarfs of Chaos Errata and FAQ for 8th ed W

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:50 am
by Larro
Just a quick note of my own. None of my opponents felt that Blunderbuss were too powerful - AFTER the game was over. People have a habit of not over-estimating how solid something is on paper when you're telling them what each unit does, but out of my 5 opponents (Warriors, 2x Skaven, Teclis HEs, and 2 Stank Empire), by the end of the game, they all felt that they were more than fair.

240 points for 20 dudes with 5+ Saves, 12" Range, and S3, before adding in Command, is a sizeable expenditure. They die in droves, even to mild shooting, and since their short-ranged, they *need* to be pushing up at some point if they're going to get shots off. 5+ on the Stand and Shoot was a good concession IMO, and once units hit the lines, even if it was something as simple as a Giant Rat Pack, the Blunderbuss just cannot win combats - ever - and that's against a unit 1/2 it's cost.

- Larry

Re: Provisionary Dwarfs of Chaos Errata and FAQ for 8th ed W

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:14 pm
by njpc
I agree with Larry. I do not feel blunderbusses are too powerful. The splatter a unit is a big "wow" when you first take it. But there's way to deal with it in hind sight. Larry is on target they fold in combat. When I realized that, there were things I could have done different. The perfect example in my game vs larry was the Doom Rocket. 1 shot, 30 pts, something like 15 dead blunders. Cost comparison of 30 vs 150+ ridiculous.

My shock was the character snipe IE the "every model" is hit IE no look out sir. It looks like you've taken care of that. My initial suggestion was going to be the 4+ look out sir. If a unit is charging a blunder unit will the character be focusing on jumping out of the way? Likely not. So a 4+ is fair to me. I think a fail on a 1 is generous myself.

A 5+ stand and shoot makes sense also. Its still has potential. I do not know if there is a way to level out their effectiveness vs monster. Just thinking it through a monster unit such as 3 ogre's takes 3 hits? Doesn't seem right. You figure I blunder buss, a hail shot weapon, would do more than 1 hit. I do not know if d3 per monster is to much, maybe d6 vs large targets like dragons, doomwheels, etc. Just an outside perspective. If you think about it in games turn its likely to be a 5+ to hit them anyway in 8th edition. Anyone using a unit of monster waiting for you to shoot them and not charging you did something wrong.

Re: Provisionary Dwarfs of Chaos Errata and FAQ for 8th ed W

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:54 am
by keithb
I do have a question about why the deamoneaters are not just classified as chariots... I mean, that is basically what they are. Also, why the bump to its combat abilities in turns after the charge... infantry, while steadfast against it, have less static to start with now. Did you feel they were under preforming?

Also about blunderbuss units... I agree with what is being said here, for the most part, though they DO NOT need a boost against big things and ogre units. The army has plenty of answers for that already with bolt throwers, hell cannons, magic spells, and magical flaming STR 5 shotguns. To also increase their ability to kill ogre/troll/minotaurs ect... would be too much imho.

Also, do ogre units/bsb's get the exception to not die when the unit breaks from combat? If no other model in the game gets that exception, I do not think that the inferno golem banner should either.

Re: Provisionary Dwarfs of Chaos Errata and FAQ for 8th ed W

PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:52 pm
by JavlinVII
IMHO Daemonsmiths should really be a level one wizard. The ability to field Hero priced models that offer magic support is very important to all armies. By changing this, only High Priests would be able to take Dispel Scrolls and the like. Considering that High Priests cost well over 250pts with any decent kit, players will usually be limited to one per army.
On a final note I would like to say that an errata really should try to stay as close to the main publication as possible, except in the interests clarification and balance. Changing something basic like this is going to require many gamers to rethink their army lists.

Re: Provisionary Dwarfs of Chaos Errata and FAQ for 8th ed W

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:24 am
by Larro
Demonsmiths are currently one of the worst Heros in the game. I've told Coleman this repeatedly, including all weekend at the Big Show, but somehow a Bound 5 Casting of something is still good in his eyes even though Bounds = horrible nowadays. That, coupled with their now over-priced Fear bonus, AND not being able to get a Magic Weapon, translates into total suck. They should be 100 point Level 1 Wizards with no Fear. Keep the silly stat-bonus and no Magic Weapon thing for Coleman "fluff" purposes, but they should be Level 1 Wizards, no Bound, just roll for 1 spell and call it a day.

- Larry

Re: Provisionary Dwarfs of Chaos Errata and FAQ for 8th ed W

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:35 am
by elrodogg
Absolutely agree that demonsmiths should be level 1/2 wizards.

Re: Provisionary Dwarfs of Chaos Errata and FAQ for 8th ed W

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:50 pm
by KevinC

Regarding Annihilators, again, I have no intention or desire, whatsoever, to change them. They are a very balanced and a brilliant design (if I do say so myself), they are good at one thing - shooting at large infantry. Against everything else their shooting is extremely poor and like I said a good general can either minimize their annihilation or negate it altogether. If you get crushed by Annihilators once, a good general will make sure it never happens again.

Regarding Daemonsmiths, the Dwarfs of Chaos list is comparable to an "Evil" Empire list. They have a bit of everything - warmachines, magic, monsters, cav, fast cav, slaves, tough infantry, chariots, monstrous infantry, etc. As a result, I don't intend to make Daemonsmiths wizards, they have a bound spell 5 that can be a nasty spell from the new lores in the rulebook, and if they cast IF there is no penalty other then their Daemon Weapon is destroyed. If you want regular magic, you still have the option of the High Priest. I don't see an issue here. However, I will probably lower the points of a Daemonsmith due to the fear rule change and bound spells.

Javlin, I agree about changing the list. I only want to make corrections, and changes so that the book fits into 8th. I'm really trying to avoid any kind of major changes.

Keith, Daemoneaters are classed as chariots.

Larry, if I lower the points of Daemonsmiths will that satisfy you (which is my intent)? Daemonsmiths are not the worst hero choice. They are decent fighters (not as good as regular heroes) but then they get a power level 5 bound spell from the crazy new rulebook lores. They could be casting purple sun on a mere 5+. If you really don't like them, my advice is don't take them. But they do have a place, use and purpose in a Chaos Dwarf army, they are an interesting and unique option that some players will take and others will not, which translates into a balanced unit.