List Collection

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Re: List Collection

Postby ryanamandaanna » Thu May 14, 2009 2:38 pm

For playtesting sake, I'm attempting to use several different units...

Dwarfs of Chaos - 2250 Points
Army total of 2247pts

High Priest of Hashut
Chaos Armour, Arcane Apparatus, Amulet of Hashut
Total unit cost: 275pts

Daemonsmith
Chaos Armour, shield, Spellfeaster
Total unit cost: 57pts

Daemonsmith
Chaos Armour, shield, Shadow Blade
Total unit cost: 57pts

Great Horn Bull Centaur
Armour of Gazrakh, Sword of Battle
Total unit cost: 150pts

Chaos Dwarf x 15
Blunderbuss, Heavy armour, Slaver, Standard
Total unit cost: 185pts

Chaos Dwarf x 15
Blunderbuss, Heavy armour, Slaver, Standard
Total unit cost: 185pts

Chaos Dwarf x 12
Heavy armour, shield, Slaver, Standard, Stone Totem of Zhoghar
Total unit cost: 158pts

Hobgoblin Wolfriders x 5
bow, light armour, full cmd
Total unit cost: 105pts

Hobgoblins x 10
bow, light armour, Slaver, Unyielding, Standard, Musician
Total unit cost: 92pts

Rabble x 20
light armour, Hobgoblin Overseer, Standard, Musician, Spear, Shield
Total unit cost: 123pts

Obsidian Guard x 10
Great Weapon, Chaos Armour, full cmd
Total unit cost: 170pts

Daemoneater
Total unit cost: 85pts

Swivel Cannon x 2
Two Chaos Dwarfs, heavy armour
Total unit cost: 120pts

Spear Chukka x 2
Two Hobgoblin crew
Total unit cost: 60pts

Death Rocket
Two Chaos Dwarfs, heavy armour
Total unit cost: 80pts

Inferno Golems x 3
Conflagration Cannon
Total unit cost: 235pts

Earthshaker
Three Chaos Dwarfs, heavy armour,
Total unit cost: 110pts
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Re: List Collection

Postby BenTheRat » Thu May 14, 2009 6:22 pm

Just a couple quick questions:

1. Daemonsmiths: 57 points, but their weapons are 60 each. Should those be 117?

2. Why the BC hero without a BC unit?
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Re: List Collection

Postby big al » Thu May 14, 2009 7:28 pm

High preist (200): Black Gem of Narg (35), Amulet of Hahsut (40), scroll (25) [300]
Demonsmith (55): shield (2), shadow blade (60) [117]
Demonsmith (55): shield (2), spellfeaster (60) [117]
BullCentaur hero (100): Gauntlets (20), Armor of Ghazrakh (30), Great Weapon (4) [154]
(688)
20 CD warriors (180): FC (25), banner of +1 Mv (45) [250]
20 CD warriors (180): FC (25) [205]
18 CD blunderbusses [198]
20 Hobgoblins (80):shields (20), CD slaver (16) [116]
20 Hobgoblins (80):shields (20), CD slaver (16) [116]
(885) [1573]
6 Bull Centaurs (120): Heavy armor (6), standard (10), champ (10) [146]
2x bolt throwers [60]
3x swivel guns [180]
3x swivel guns [180]
(566) [2139]
Earth Shaker [110]
[2249]
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Re: List Collection

Postby GeneralofChaos13 » Fri May 15, 2009 12:06 pm

What a Power Gaming list could look like?

4 Character that takes as many bound items as possible. [just need to stay away from rolling those 1's]

Core: 3 units of Blunderbuss [min number to start, but a great core unit]

Specials:
1 unit of Bull Centaurs [need those S6 bad boys]
3 Daemoneater Chariots [love cheap as hell 14 inch charge unit, that never needs to roll to hit in combat]

Rare:
Hellcannon
Hellcannon

Now the free points left over? Take as many bound item banners as you can & cheap units of Goblins as possible for ranks or to redirect.

Battle Plan: shoot & magic them to death, as the race over the board at you. Then tie up opponents high point cost units with Hellcannon, then kill them off with charges of Bull Centaurs & Daemon Chariots.

Sorry, but these are the lists they need to be play tested also. Because people will be playing them. Not trying to cause a board war, just pointing out the facts. Because there list will tell you if this is a weak, mid-range or broken tier army. [food for thought]




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Re: List Collection

Postby mikkjel » Sat May 16, 2009 1:20 pm

Id start off with this list:

High priest w/ daemon bane, black gem = 285
Daemonsmith w/ shield, parasite blade = 102
Daemonsmith w/ shield, shadow blade = 117
Daemonsmith w/ shield, soul eater = 117
621

21 Chaos dwarf warriors w/ blunderbusses, command, stone totem = 286
15 chaos dwarf warriors w/ blunderbusses = 165
15 chaos dwarf warriors w/ blunderbusses = 165
616

10 hobgoblins w/ mus = 46
10 hobgoblins w/ mus = 46
10 gobgoblins w/ mus = 46

25 rabble w/ shields, standard, mus = 112
25 rabble w/ shields, standard, mus = 112

8 bolt throwers = 240

hell cannon = 205
hell cannon = 205

2249

A few notes:

1) No spellfeaster. Not because its not really overpowered, but because if will definitely not stay in the list, I think.
2) shooting/magic to start out seeing how much damage I can possibly do. I have 3 magic missile bound spells, one sniping bound spell and the high priest to cast with. To reliably shut down the magic phase, you need 14 dispel dice. Against a normal 5 dispel dice phase, the opponent will be best off using 3 dice to stop the petrifying spell, and two dice to stop two missiles (both on 3+), eating a sniping spell and d3str5 hits, possibly a priest spell. I think that in this list starting off with hailing hashut is a good idea, but it needs testing. Its an expensive magic phase, but is devastating against some armies, completely bypasses hotek defense, and is rather fun. It also gives you 3 characters who are decent in combat and one who can stall any single model for one round.
3) Ill have to add chariots and bull centaurs later. They are both rather good units if combined right.
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Re: List Collection

Postby Zhorn » Tue May 19, 2009 3:10 pm

This list will see action on friday. Obviously, it is not maxed out or streamlined but then, i want to test certain options to weigh against each other.

Slavers to Darkness 2249 points

High priest, arcane aparatus, hailfire, hexagon 280

Greathoof, BSB, amulet of hashut, shield, hv armour, GW 172
Demonsmith, shield, parasite blade 102
Demonsmith, shield, soul eater 117

10 Warriors, shield, chaos armour 120
- gun 60
10 warriors, shield, chaos armour 120
- gun 60
16 Annihilatiors, fc 201
20 Slaves, shields, musician, standart 92
20 Slaves, shields, musician, standart 92
5 Wolfriders, spears, bows, musician 86
5 Wolfriders, spears, bows, musician 86

Death rocket 80
Bolt thrower 30
Bolt thrower 30
Demoneater 105
6 Bull centaurs, fc, stone totem 181

3 Golems, spell upgrade 235

Musings before the battle:

I want to test the magic phase because it seems really fun and is something new to play around with. As such, the high priest and 1-2 demonsmiths just came naturally to the list. After adding up the possibilities the second demonsmith just seems a must (on top of several more bound spells in the form of banners and unit upgrades). A bit sad, that a 1 HP + 1 DS or 2 DS setup seems not worthwhile.
Random idea: The demonsmith bound spells could go up in powerlevel (and get all the same powerlevel for streamlining reasons) while the HP spells could come down in PL to keep the overall power the same.

Well, i'll see how the magic fares.

Next the BSB - in the first draft, this was a slave master but after shuffling some points and items (and loosing a dispel dice in the process) the great hoof setup was only 10 points more expensive - a nobrainer, IMO. The maneuverable BSB should be a lot more flexible, adding it's combat weight and CR whereever needed. Another plus - with hatred, the model brings very reliable medium punch. Combined with either the golems or the bull centaur unit the "medium punch" should become a real pain amplifier.

For core troops i would have liked to make the warrior units 15 strong (w/ fc) but in the end the points were just not available. With the overall setup i feel comfortable and i did leave out slave spam for a reason (it is not very much fun). The rabble troops provide expendable CR and won out over hobgoblins due to cost reasons.
Random idea: To make HG units stand out a bit more (for essentially the same job) a chaos dwarf slaver could provide the black orc leader rule in regard to animosity. That way HGs would be more expensive but more reliable than rabble troops.

In the special and rare departement i would have liked a second ItP unit a lot but alas, see above. The second whirlwind got substituted for the BC unit to see how these units would fare against each other. While the stone totem on the BCs might seem wasted i wanted to compare the unit to golems, too (in their role of countercharging).
Random idea: If an overlord leads the army, imortals become a core choice (which counts towards minimum core requirements).

Overall, the character setup seemed to dictate the rest of the list pretty much. On his account, i found it dissapointing when i found no magic item combo to support slave masters. Perhaps some cheap items that play to the strength of the overlord/slave masters could provide some incentive? Like a talisman giving +1 AS or somesuch. Of course, in the end it is not all too tragic if slave masters are not that hot - a lot of army books have less useful heroes to choose from.

I am really curious how the demonsmith work with their half ranged / half close combat abilities. I fear that their taker abilities are not enough to really emphasise their CC potential which seems a shame since demon blades are such a cool concept. On top of that, if their survival is crucial to the point wether the army plays as "SAD" or as a combined arms army.

Anyways, the long text above is meant to have a focal point when reflecting on the battle to come in several days in hindsight. ;)
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Re: List Collection

Postby BenTheRat » Tue May 19, 2009 5:11 pm

Well if you had had the points, you could have had 2 BC units.

Don't forget 1 counts as core since you have the Great Horn Bull Centaur.
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