Grimstonefire feedback

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Grimstonefire feedback

Postby Grimstonefire » Tue May 19, 2009 5:44 pm

Seeing as I happen to have registered here I will add my feedback (rather than on CDO). My apologies if this has already been covered, I freely admit I have not read many of the threads of other people.

I think the upgrade costs of some things are out.

Chaos Dwarf warriors:
Additional hand weapon is 3 pts/ model
I have no idea where Spears fit in, but they should be 2 pts/ model
Upgrading heavy armour to 4+ (chaos Armour) is 2 pts/ model

Hobgoblins:
I would add spear option for these guys. Maybe even poisoned attacks option (close combat)

Rabble:
You say 'the entire unit' etc, but seeing as there is no limit on the size of the unit this is unbalanced. Your miniumum unit size is 20, so I would just change that to shields +1pt/model and throwing knives (stones etc, maybe even including these as standard). Short bows and spears seem a little too good and a bit pointless for these guys. The choice of base sizes is... a bit strange.

Obsidian Guard:
Based on those rules/ equipment they should be 20 pts/ model. I would drop either ItP or Fear. Probably ItP.

I would be tempted to make the Bolt thrower 35 pts.

Bull Centaurs:
PLEASE can you update them to have hand weapons and the usual option of Great weapon (2 pts) or additional (3 points), maybe even consider a Slayer Axes type rule? I would just give them heavy armour as standard, chaos armour as option (+2 pts/ model). For 20pts apprx a model who wouldn't take heavy armour?

Inferno Golems:
Those are some beefy special rules! Do these guys really need to cause magical attacks? If you dropped that I would say they would be worth 65 pts. You have to price the construct weapons per model as there is no fixed unit size. There you would state which ones are magical attacks. If I misunderstood and they are armed with only one weapon between them you need to give more rules about how that would work. Perhaps having a champion golem who can carry one? Consider dropping the unit size to 1+

Juggernaut siege tower I still fail to see the need for. A wasted opportunity for a rare slot I think.

I think you should drop the minimum unit size of all units except rabble and golems to 5+

Lastly I really think you need to change the order in the bestiary section so there is some logical progression.

Maybe lord>hero>core>special>rare

Or start off with core and tag lord/ heroes onto the end. It's very confusing at the moment.

:)
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Re: Grimstonefire feedback

Postby Dedwrekka » Tue May 19, 2009 7:41 pm

I'm interested by the point increase idea for Obsidian Guard.In your opinion, would Stubborn be more fitting with the current points than ITP?

I happen to like the Rabble base size choices. You can choose the base size based on how you want the unit to act. For a smaller throw away unit, you might want a larger base size to hold up more enemy (Even great for a Rabble Bomb unit). A defensive or shooting unit would be better with small bases.
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Re: Grimstonefire feedback

Postby Garrett » Tue May 19, 2009 11:17 pm

I think Stubborn would work much better for them, personally.
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Re: Grimstonefire feedback

Postby Grimstonefire » Wed May 20, 2009 7:36 am

The rabble can take a bomb!! :shock: Now that would be an... :boom:

(edit) moved to specific thread
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Re: Grimstonefire feedback

Postby mattbird » Wed May 20, 2009 9:50 am

Grimstonefire wrote:Seeing as I happen to have registered here I will add my feedback (rather than on CDO). My apologies if this has already been covered, I freely admit I have not read many of the threads of other people.

I think the upgrade costs of some things are out.

Chaos Dwarf warriors:
Additional hand weapon is 3 pts/ model
I have no idea where Spears fit in, but they should be 2 pts/ model
Upgrading heavy armour to 4+ (chaos Armour) is 2 pts/ model


welcome to the boards!

are you suggesting that extra hand weapons should be 3 pts? They are currently 1 pt. I'm not sure I'd want them even if they are free, from an efficiency point of view. Chaos armor brings them to a 2+ save in CC, so I think 3 pts is totally worth it.

Hobgoblins:
I would add spear option for these guys. Maybe even poisoned attacks option (close combat)


sneaky gits cover the poison part. Spears would be ok.

Rabble:
You say 'the entire unit' etc, but seeing as there is no limit on the size of the unit this is unbalanced. Your miniumum unit size is 20, so I would just change that to shields +1pt/model and throwing knives (stones etc, maybe even including these as standard). Short bows and spears seem a little too good and a bit pointless for these guys. The choice of base sizes is... a bit strange.


I agre, no point in breaking from the norm here.

Obsidian Guard:
Based on those rules/ equipment they should be 20 pts/ model. I would drop either ItP or Fear. Probably ItP.


really? I totally don't see it. Equivalent troops in other armies don't cost more than 15 pts.

Bull Centaurs:
PLEASE can you update them to have hand weapons and the usual option of Great weapon (2 pts) or additional (3 points), maybe even consider a Slayer Axes type rule? I would just give them heavy armour as standard, chaos armour as option (+2 pts/ model). For 20pts apprx a model who wouldn't take heavy armour?


agree with restoring weapon and magic banner options

Inferno Golems:
Those are some beefy special rules! Do these guys really need to cause magical attacks? If you dropped that I would say they would be worth 65 pts. You have to price the construct weapons per model as there is no fixed unit size. There you would state which ones are magical attacks. If I misunderstood and they are armed with only one weapon between them you need to give more rules about how that would work. Perhaps having a champion golem who can carry one? Consider dropping the unit size to 1+


linited to 1 weapon per unit. i think these guys are overcosted, actually.

Juggernaut siege tower I still fail to see the need for. A wasted opportunity for a rare slot I think.


I have faith in this, i need to test it out, of course...

I think you should drop the minimum unit size of all units except rabble and golems to 5+

can't do that with core infantry.
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Re: Grimstonefire feedback

Postby Grimstonefire » Wed May 20, 2009 10:36 am

Additional hand weapons are 3 points for every other army aren't they..?

For a chaos warrrior chaos armour is 4 pts/ model as part of the cost. That could be a fiddle factor I agree, whether the list a whole requires them to be slightly more expensive.

Obsidian guard I answered the points issue in the specific thread ;)

One weapon per unit? Where in the unit is it? They are all ranged attacks, so you need to say how that works.

I agree, keep the core unit size as 10+ min.
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Re: Grimstonefire feedback

Postby Border Reiver » Wed May 20, 2009 10:51 am

Compared with HE Phoenix Guard and all they have for the same cost, 15 points for the Obsidian Guard is about right.
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Re: Grimstonefire feedback

Postby Grimstonefire » Wed May 20, 2009 7:38 pm

+1 Strength, +1 Toughness, +1 armour save, there are enough differences to show why these guys should not be 15 points based on that comparison ;)

15 points would be very nice, but you won't get an excellant unit for your points unfortunately. Anyway, it's up to others to consider these things.
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Re: Grimstonefire feedback

Postby mattbird » Wed May 20, 2009 8:23 pm

Grimstonefire wrote:Additional hand weapons are 3 points for every other army aren't they..?

For a chaos warrrior chaos armour is 4 pts/ model as part of the cost. That could be a fiddle factor I agree, whether the list a whole requires them to be slightly more expensive.


Chaos Warriors are str 4, WS5, Initiative 5. It makes a tremendous difference. Even if extra hand weapons for Dwarfs were FREE, I'd not use them. If you run the math you will see that unless you are fighting Gnoblars, you are better off going hw/shield.

Grimstonefire wrote:One weapon per unit? Where in the unit is it? They are all ranged attacks, so you need to say how that works.



it says it in the unit description. Not sure what you mean by "saying how that works"? It would work like any ranged attack. You'd have to model the Golem with the weapon, and that's where the attack comes from.
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