Thoughts on V2

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Re: Thoughts on V2

Postby mattbird » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:34 am

we're messing around with changes to this unit, i agree they are underpowered/overpriced as current.
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Re: Thoughts on V2

Postby Larro » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:26 am

Well hey, whaddya know. I've only been saying this for 3 weeks now, and I haven't playtested a game. ;) :P

But seriously, good call. Any thoughts on what the changes will be? If anything, that proposed "Unbreakable + Points Increase" sounds like a generally bad idea, since anything that makes them more expensive than they already are would, in my estimation, make them even less attractive. The army is already LD10 with a BSB most of the time, so Unbreakability isn't always so appealing. I'd sooner go WS4, 3+ Save, 60 pts., call it a day.

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Re: Thoughts on V2

Postby Guy In Suit » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:28 am

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Re: Thoughts on V2

Postby elrodogg » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:34 am

Unbreakable is great. Not every army is going to have ld10 + bsb, even then it may not help. Unbreakable golems provide an anvil unit without forcing obsidian guard into that role.

edit: I would like to see unbreakable, ws4, 4 wounds, 4 attacks at 90pts with a 3+ armor save, min sized unit of 2+. I would errr on making each guy better and more expensive than cheaper.
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Re: Thoughts on V2

Postby Guy In Suit » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:38 am

Ronen Warrior wrote: Unbreakable golems provide an anvil unit without forcing obsidian guard into that role.


Can't a hellcannon do that already? Multiple unbreakable options seems a bit OTT to me.
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Re: Thoughts on V2

Postby elrodogg » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:40 am

Guy In Suit wrote:Can't a hellcannon do that already? Multiple unbreakable options seems a bit OTT to me.


Thus speaketh VC boy, all bow before his unbreakable knowledge. :lol:

It's still a rare slot. So the most you would get would be 2 units unbreakable. Hardly OTT.
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Re: Thoughts on V2

Postby Guy In Suit » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:43 am

I've been an elf boy lately, and there has been much sadness :cry:
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Re: Thoughts on V2

Postby Murdock » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:35 pm

I don't want to see unbreakability for these guys from a power perspective. WS4, 3+ armor, Ld 9 would really be sufficient.
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Re: Thoughts on V2

Postby Larro » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:43 pm

Great minds think alike.

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Re: Thoughts on V2

Postby Matt » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:16 am

Larro wrote:Given the choice between an Ogre or a Golem, I'll take the Ogre almost every time, certainly EVERY time if it's a Chaos Ogre (Chaos Armor and GW = the shit), or an Irongut. Minotaurs hands-down crush any other 40mm Ogre-type in the game because of their M6 and WS4, and the fact they're only slightly more expensive than an Ogre, but significantly cheaper than these Golems. And Ushabti at 65 pts. ARE about 5 pts. overpriced as well, but their book is very old, and they have their own unique rules and a S6 non-GW attack which gives them a leg-up vs. many other heavy hitters, so they're borderline appropriately priced, and still leaps and bounds better than these Golems.
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Chaos Ogre with chaos armor and great weapon is 50 points. 200 points for a minimum unit. If you are spending 200 points, take 5 chaos knights (also 200 points). You get 10 S5 attacks, 5 S4 attacks, M7, 1+ saves, better leadership, and won't be attacking last every round you aren't charging. I wouldn't take chaos ogres over Golems, because I'd be taking chaos knights. If you are thinking about marks, the chaos warriors get more mileage than the ogres do.

Golems will face the same problem. As shock troops, bull centaurs will do better. Before you tell me these are over-costed, you better say what roll you would take a 40mm unit for, rather than just using shock troop cav and leaving the 40mm guys at home.
Unless they get revamped as broken good, I wouldn't ever take them, I'd rather have 2 earth shakers for the cost of a unit of golems.


On the topic of treekin:
I've seen Treekin butcher armies before. Joined by a mage on unicorn, treekin + character moonstoned them onto a flank. In the context of wood elves, treekin can be viable (the list lacks chaos knights/dragon ogres/bull centaurs).
I've also seen treekin used to keep the enemy facing. You can't turn a flank to treekin, so it makes the advance of wild-riders, and the wardancers that much easier. They aren't under-costed, they are under-used (ugly lots of money isn't a good combo).


My experience with ogres is that they don't have staying power in combat. You need the great weapon, because S4 isn't good enough. But with the great weapon, you're striking last all too often. I'd take S5 T5 over S6 T4 strike last any day. Getting magical attacks is nice (since you don't have static combat res to combat wraiths/spirit hosts), and flaming is better than a poke in the eye.


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