Dwarfs of Chaos featured on Bad Dice podcast

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Re: Dwarfs of Chaos featured on Bad Dice podcast

Postby PaulGates » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:44 pm

I just listened to the Podcast and without knowing beforehand about this project so I found it very entertaining despite not knowing about the specific CD rules that you guys have come up with. You guys were good guests with interesting things to say. I especially liked the part where Matt ragged on the new WoC book. I'll have to check out the newest version of your rules and try to playtest them at some point.

I think its awesome that these kinds of things are going on in the community (podcasts, magazines, rulebooks) -- great job all around.
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Re: Dwarfs of Chaos featured on Bad Dice podcast

Postby Arash » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:14 am

Heya,

So I finally listened to the podcast (painting 6 chariots sucks big time). I found it entertaining. The two hosts take a bit to get used to, but overall I liked it. You two really made the show.

And Larry- I was holding off commenting until I had listened to the podcast, so as to add something substantive to the thread. A couple of things.

I never stated that Beasts were a great book. I never threw in my lot with Birdoff, I simply said that you were out of place, this was a thread about podcasts and you started bringing in other shit into it. That's annoying. Yes, having played beasts under both book editions, and helping you build your beasts, I know that it is not a great book. There are reasons why I have never lost against Beastmen.

I think that it is a fine book. It certainly has a good amount of things that pop out at one, namely chariots, magic, and minotaurs. Beastmen is one of those lists that you really have to start building lists with before the limitations start kicking in. I also think that Birdoff is placing a lot of his assumptions based off of two things. 1) how amazing beast herds were for 6th edition chaos. And they were amazing. 2) Just how much the 6th ed magic items, and furies, added to the beast book.

However, never once have I really seen the old man claim that playtesting would not sway his opinion. We all know how many super awesome army ideas he has had, that have hit the table top once or twice only to be dusted because they were not that awesome after all. I am sure that if he played 5 games with Beastmen that his opinion of the book would change somewhat. That being said, I still think that the Beast book is fine. It is a very fun book, and can obviously be made into a list that can win tournament games.

While I disagree with him on a good deal of issues, I do think that he is one hell of a playtester. He's been in this game for a long time, he knows when a unit works and when it doesn't. Sure, he's prone to hyperbole, but I think that in most cases all the things he has changed have been spot on.

Obviously all of this holds true for Kevin as well. I did not focus on him because your beef in this thread was with Birdoff.

Lastly, this was a fucking brag thread. These boards are full of them. Here let me remind you of the last couple have been about- "I Just passed the bar exam," 'I just got a job with the DA's office," "I just got a temp position," "I won another tournament," and 'I just ate a sandwich." I am not saying that there is anything wrong with these threads, rather that when they come about, then the polite/right thing to do is to be nice to the person. They just did something great that sounds like a lot of fun, you should be happy for them. We all are when you post these threads.

These two guys have put a hell of a lot of effort into this book, and they have listened to all of the playtesters and really tried their fucking hardest to make the best book that they can. It's understandable, if not a bit repetitive, for you to harp on them in all the other fucking threads on the board. But give them this. I can't imagine that it is easy work managing this, and shitting on them when they are having a moment is not cool.
Last edited by Arash on Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dwarfs of Chaos featured on Bad Dice podcast

Postby method » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:52 am

well, i for one appreciate it guys, great work so far...
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Re: Dwarfs of Chaos featured on Bad Dice podcast

Postby Larro » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:12 am

All good points Arash, and I agree with everything but for the bit about me making posts in the Chamber re: personal accomplishments and calling them bragging. There's a difference between being genuinely happy about passing the Bar exam or getting a job for example, and bragging about something / rubbing something in the faces of others, but this is even further off topic than my original post. ;)

I would just like to say that I really do appreciate what Coleman and Birdoff are doing. I think it is a great idea, and one that clearly takes a ton of time and effory. With that, I would like to see them both explain why at times they choose to do/not do certain things, especially when concerns about XYZ are raised. Sometimes it isn't enough for grown men to simply say "well this is how it's going to be because I say so" just because they're the ones with "authority" over a project which was thought to be a community effort. Now don't get me wrong - for the most part, they've listened and made changes where necessary, but I do feel that at times, valid suggestions, especially about things like points-costs, have been swept under the rug and washed away with a disclaimer of "but this is a fanmade book." Honestly, I think we're smarter and more experienced at determining what makes a book viable and what creates game balance than the designers at GW, and I think if we all listened a little more - myself included - this could easily be a better book than the crap they've put out in the past year or two.

- Larry
"Just being born means you've lost to Larro. Or haven't you gotten the memo yet?" - Nidal

"Larry was right. I know he never gets tired of hearing that." - Canterman
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Re: Dwarfs of Chaos featured on Bad Dice podcast

Postby DarkbloodSkullpulper » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:33 pm

You think this is a brag thread, just wait until some blogger somewhere reviews the list and pronounces it more professional than anything GW has done in years... and you know it'll happen, given the level of hate GW manages to engender in the gaming community. That'll be a nice treat for Kevin and Matt.
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Re: Dwarfs of Chaos featured on Bad Dice podcast

Postby Alric » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:07 am

Just finished to listening to pod cast was really great, Kevin seem to be drinking a bit aye ? :lol:

I like the mention of the deodorant for grav vehicles conversion for warhammer 40k Rogue Trader days, I think mine are long gone but a friend still has 2 of those.

It's was helpful to here Kevin and Matts comments on the Chaos Dwarf list and know better what they are going for overall and unit by unit, I think it will help play testing.
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