Something to try for Hobgoblins....

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Re: Something to try for Hobgoblins....

Postby Matt » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:25 pm

KevinC wrote:Hashuts,
As for the general, only a hobgoblin chieftain (Lord choice) as the army general allows Hobgoblin units to count as core. You are correct that the general is the model with the highest LD. So if you took a LD 7 Hobgoblin Overseer as you're general that means you cannot take any other character with a LD greater than 7, unless he is the BSB. BSB cannot be the general.


The easy fix would be to change the Chieftain rule and place the rule in the "Selecting a General". Simply stat that, "The highest Leadership character must be the General. If the General is a Hobgoblin, then Hobgoblins count as required core and chaos dwarf units.... blah blah blah."

That way, you could play a hobgoblin army at 1999 or less; as long as you don't take any Bull Centaur or Chaos Dwarf heroes.

-Matt
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Re: Something to try for Hobgoblins....

Postby Hashuts Scion » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:43 am

Matt,

That's what I was thinking, but changing the wording of the rule, Hobgoblin Hordes, to that rather than the overall rule.

The more subtle problem is that also prevents CD and BC champions.
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Re: Something to try for Hobgoblins....

Postby mattbird » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:06 am

thinking this over, I do not think that hobgoblins should have access to WS4.
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Re: Something to try for Hobgoblins....

Postby Border Reiver » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:23 pm

I agree - hobgoblins are supposed to be average fighters. And CDs might have issues with slaves/allied tribes that are as good fighters as they are.
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Re: Something to try for Hobgoblins....

Postby KevinC » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:32 pm

Right, that is what I think too, Hobgobs will be core simply if 'you general is a Hobgoblin'.

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Re: Something to try for Hobgoblins....

Postby Renufus » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:48 pm

I have to agree, while it's good that there's at least recognition that Hobgoblins need a bit more, I don't think making them WS4 and I3 is the answer (as awesome as it would be to have WS4 Wolf Riders and Archers).

If a points reduction is still off the table, Worthless Maggots for the footsloggers would be my next choice.
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Re: Something to try for Hobgoblins....

Postby Aves » Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:01 pm

Well guys, dont you think that 20 man (hobgobbo) as minimum size is simply a drawback that has to be accounted for? Are goblin archers fielded in 10's?

Another note, hobgoblin army isnt equal to hobgoblin raiding party. Fast hit and run attack force wouldnt have balistas with them, fluff wise warmachine is too cumbersone to transport.
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Re: Something to try for Hobgoblins....

Postby Renufus » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:47 pm

Aves wrote:Well guys, dont you think that 20 man (hobgobbo) as minimum size is simply a drawback that has to be accounted for?


You mean in addition to animosity, mandatory useless LA, poor stats, average range, average BS, below average S and costing 120pts per unit?

Verus the pros...which are what again?
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Re: Something to try for Hobgoblins....

Postby Border Reiver » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:30 am

Hashuts Scion wrote:Matt,

That's what I was thinking, but changing the wording of the rule, Hobgoblin Hordes, to that rather than the overall rule.

The more subtle problem is that also prevents CD and BC champions.


How so? Champions are not characters according to the BRB, but, like characters they can issue and accept challenges. They cannot leave their unit, and do not have a leadership bubble. The exception to this would be in a Warbands game where a unit champion could the general.
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Re: Something to try for Hobgoblins....

Postby Hashuts Scion » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:19 pm

Border Reiver wrote:
Hashuts Scion wrote:Matt,

That's what I was thinking, but changing the wording of the rule, Hobgoblin Hordes, to that rather than the overall rule.

The more subtle problem is that also prevents CD and BC champions.


How so? Champions are not characters according to the BRB, but, like characters they can issue and accept challenges. They cannot leave their unit, and do not have a leadership bubble. The exception to this would be in a Warbands game where a unit champion could the general.


BRB?
Champions get more than just the challenge capacity. They get the ability to move within a unit in exactly the same way as characters. If killed, they are NOT replaced by another rank and file figure. They also benefit from the "look out" rule. I have played in games of 1000 points where only unit champions existed. So, maybe this is our group's interpretation, but we have played where the highest character, including champions, is the general. BUT, I can see your point. The rules do state that champions are not characters. So, has this been completely clarified by FAQ or 'official ruling'?' Otherwise, we have a situation where, at a certain point level, a champion is indeed the general and sometimes he is not. A one-sentence ruling that claifies this would be appreciative.
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