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V4 Daemonic Engines feedback HERE!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:07 pm
by mattbird
Please discuss ALL daemonic engines in this thread. thanks

Re: V4 Daemonic Engines feedback HERE!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:46 pm
by mikkjel
I think two questions that are going to come up a lot are:

1) Are the handlers immune to fear as well?
2) How do the handlers restrict the movement of the machine?
3) Is it allowed to charge (its better to clarify than have some people think its a war machine).

EDIT: whimper... monster reaction result vs. daemonic fury.

Re: V4 Daemonic Engines feedback HERE!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:13 pm
by mattbird
They would follow the rules for all similar unit types; hellcannon, hydra, and salamanders/razordons, so:

1) they gain immunity to fear, as 1 model in the unit causes fear
2) as monsters and handlers do, so can move as skirmishers at max move of crew. charge range is determined by the monster, with the handlers lining up behind it if they do not have movement to contact the enemy.
3) yes, can charge just as monsters can.

hope that helps!

Re: V4 Daemonic Engines feedback HERE!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:23 pm
by mikkjel
Point one isnt that black and white. Characters give fear immunity to their mounts and units, mount to their riders. There is nothing in the rules about war machines to crew, but then I realized its monsters to handlers, so nvm that. It was a genuine question for both the cauldron of blood and skinks/kroxigors, though.

I would recommend changing the move of the machines to 3, to avoid some tricky situations from mixed move units. Currently the hellcannon is the only one that has mixed move, I cannot really imagine a death rocket speeding away as fast as an ogre ;)

The cant charge vs. must charge is interesting, though.

Also clarifications for beast cowers and commandment of brass. What works, what doesnt? Although multi unit types suck, I would think of making all the machines count as war machines, except for the purpose of movement, charging and combat. The main reason for this, IMO, is the fact that deploying war machines individually is quite a boost to the tactical power of the list.

Re: V4 Daemonic Engines feedback HERE!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:34 pm
by mattbird
I think between these questions and those that regularly arise with the hellcanon, we should put in a page clarifying everything. The rules are all already in use in the game, but yeah, would help to just put it all in one place to make it easy.

In short, they all currently act as monsters, who just happen to also fire in the shooting phase like war machines. So anything that effects just war machines would NOT effect them.

I agree that deployment and movement should be taken into consideration, though.

Re: V4 Daemonic Engines feedback HERE!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:02 pm
by DarkbloodSkullpulper
I love the concept, but do not like what MathHammer says about the rule change. I'm pretty sure it's going to work out to be a huge nerf for CD warmachines. I think the machines either need more attacks at higher strength or else the unbreakable rule to have any real hope of serving a dual role.

I'll look forward to seeing the batreps.

Re: V4 Daemonic Engines feedback HERE!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:19 pm
by elrodogg
First impressions are similar. They should be higher strength. thinking dropping 1 pip of weapon skill in exchange for a pip of strength.

Re: V4 Daemonic Engines feedback HERE!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:51 am
by mikkjel
I would rather have daemonic machines than regular war machines. They suffer a little more from small arms fire, but other than that, they are more resilient to war machine hunters and dont give up their points as easily either. Id say its quite a bonus for a dwarf army, where traditionally the easiest victory points are from the war machines.

Re: V4 Daemonic Engines feedback HERE!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:32 pm
by Aves
War machines in a dwarf army are tough cookies.

Unbreakable, hero with 1+ save with a reroll and a GW. TSS TSS

Re: V4 Daemonic Engines feedback HERE!

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:00 am
by DarkbloodSkullpulper
Yeah, and what dwarf gunline takes a warmachine without the anti-misfire runes?

My biggest problem with the daemonic war machines is that they have almost twice the chance of not shooting (11/36 rampage + misfire compared to 1/6 chance of a misfire) without a serious benefit to back it up. They should win or draw combats against flying or skirmished warmachine hunters, but if they decide to charge a ranked unit, they are toast.