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Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:40 pm
by Larro
If they're 65, my mistake, but they're still better in every way. You can't tell me a 4+/5+ and Move Through Woods is worse than Flaming attacks.

- Larry

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:29 pm
by mattbird
no, it's better. Golems should be 60 points. Kevin disagreed. I don't think 60 or 65 pts important enough a difference to keep arguing about it.

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:13 am
by KevinC
So what are you saying?

I wrote the above because I think it would be cool to have a vast amount of weapon options for the Inferno Golems. I feel that the points for them base should be 65 pts in comparsion to Dragon Ogres, Treekin and Yehtees. I don't think that they would be 'too good' at 60 pts. Matt, do you think they should be cheaper? My concern is both balance and comparison to other army books.

Kevin out

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:27 am
by mikkjel
I think that the golems as they are probably arent worth the cost (without making them a crappy unit). With the upgrades, I definitely think they are viable. I assume the fact that the ASF upgrade has no cost is an oversight? The golems can be made to suit the players need quite nicely. I might try 3 with 2 asf and a s7 golem. ASF should be priced at 15 or 20 points.

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:10 am
by KevinC
If several people think Golems should be 60, I'm open to this. The concern is not me, the concern is the other GW units compared to fan-made list units.

Larry is even saying Treekin are overpriced, Dragon Ogres are overpriced (he probably thinks yhetees are overpriced), Inferno Golems are overpriced.

And as a result we should take the fan list and drop their point cost while GW units remain 'overpriced'? Do you see how some could be upset with that? Or am I simply crazy?

Kevin out

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:29 am
by elrodogg
KevinC wrote:And as a result we should take the fan list and drop their point cost while GW units remain 'overpriced'? Do you see how some could be upset with that? Or am I simply crazy?


It's a 100% legitimate concern. Not everything in the book needs to be 100% perfect. Kevin, instead lowering the cost of these troops, why not give them a slight boost while keeping them at 65pts? Give them stubborn, or an extra wound, a 3+ base armor save, or some other benefit to make them worth being a 200pt unit when fielded (outside of the upgrades they can get which should be paid for appropriately).

Regarding the construct weapons, they aren't appropriately costed. Some are too expensive and the more obviously useful ones are cheaper.

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:49 am
by mattbird
KevinC wrote:So what are you saying?

I wrote the above because I think it would be cool to have a vast amount of weapon options for the Inferno Golems. I feel that the points for them base should be 65 pts in comparsion to Dragon Ogres, Treekin and Yehtees. I don't think that they would be 'too good' at 60 pts. Matt, do you think they should be cheaper? My concern is both balance and comparison to other army books.

Kevin out



I am saying, as I have been saying for months, that Golems as they are should cost 5-10 points less than what you have them at. ;)

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:51 am
by mattbird
Ronen Warrior wrote:
KevinC wrote:And as a result we should take the fan list and drop their point cost while GW units remain 'overpriced'? Do you see how some could be upset with that? Or am I simply crazy?


It's a 100% legitimate concern. Not everything in the book needs to be 100% perfect. Kevin, instead lowering the cost of these troops, why not give them a slight boost while keeping them at 65pts? Give them stubborn, or an extra wound, a 3+ base armor save, or some other benefit to make them worth being a 200pt unit when fielded (outside of the upgrades they can get which should be paid for appropriately).

Regarding the construct weapons, they aren't appropriately costed. Some are too expensive and the more obviously useful ones are cheaper.


stubborn is worth a hell of a lot more than you are giving it credit for. I would pay 100 pts each if they were stubborn. The upgrades are just too many, too confusing, and some too good.

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:28 am
by KevinC
Matt, the construct weapons are not confusing they are no different than Ogre Maneater options. Each model may have one construct weapon and that gives them a bonus in some way. One or two give a bonus that effects the entire unit and that is clearly noted. Ben have a look and see if you can come up with any rules questions, lol...

I think this list of weapons is a really cool way for people to convert and invent their own Golems, which makes complete sense as this is how Golems are created in the fantasy world.

Ronen, I'm interested in how much you think Inferno Golems should cost as they are now, and Andy if your out there I'm curious what your opinion is. Matt and Larry think Dragon Ogres and Treekin are bad, when they some of the best units period, what are do others think?

Kevin out

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:37 pm
by Larro
I've been in Ronen's camp from the get-go. These guys need a 4th wound or a 3+ armor save.

You're discounting the 4th wound that Dragon Ogres get, and the extra Movement, like those somehow aren't 2 of the best stats for Combat units to have in the game!

Dragon Ogres are overpriced. Most people, if they were being honest, would tell you this.

And I understand your concern about GW Units being overpriced, so you can't make a fan-made unit cheaper than they are, but you CAN when the units aren't identical.

Again, Treekin has a 5+ Ward Save on top of their 4+ Save. They move through Woods. These are huge differences.

- Larry