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New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:02 pm
by KevinC
I've been tinkering with the Construct Weapons, please give this a try:

Construct Weapons

Each Inferno Golem in any unit may be upgraded with one of the following construct weapons. Golem models in the same unit may be armed differently or the same, though the particular construct weapon must be modeled on the miniature.

Face of Hashut (+50 pts), One per unit:
The model counts as a Standard bearer, Musician and Champion. +1 Attack.

Eruption Gun (+30 pts): Follows the rules for Eruption Guns, though they may move and shoot. This is not a flaming attack. If a misfire is rolled, the Inferno Golem unit suffers D3 S4 hits with no armour saves allowed, but do not make a roll on the misfire table.

Soul Crystal (+30 pts): Magic Resistance (2).

Lava Fire (+30 pts), One per unit: Bound Spell (Power Level 3). Lava Fire is a magic missile with a range of 18

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:58 pm
by Guy In Suit
This is friggin sick.

I think it might be a bit to complicated to have each unit having different stats, so maybe all the buffs should be purchased for the entire unit.

It lets you make uber golems, but at these point costs that seems totally fair.

(S7 ASF Golems that pursue 3d6 sound brutal!)

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:04 pm
by KevinC
Keep in mind Andrew that given their points cost (65 each w/o upgrades) means that you won't normally being seeing more than 4 or 5 in an army. Which means it is easy to understand. I.E. this one with the big ugly face has the 'Face of Hashut', this one with the arm cannon has an 'Eruption gun', this one with all the extra armoured plates has 'Reinforced carapace', etc.

It is like Ogre Maneaters being armed with their different weapons....

Kevin out

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:13 pm
by Guy In Suit
It definitely makes casualty removal more interesting!

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:49 pm
by Larro
Hey look, awesome abilities at reasonable prices!

Too bad Golems are still prohibitively expensive @ 65 pts. base, meaning 75+ pts. per model after only the cheapest upgrades, and more expensive for anything else. All for what? 3 T5 wounds? Sounds awful.

DRAGON OGRES are overpriced. They're S7. They've got 4 wounds. They have as good an armor save. They're faster. Who the hell would take THESE guys, when no one takes Dragon Ogres, largely considered bottom-tier of the 40mm units?

After your inadequate explanations re: Treekin vs. Golems however, I guess I should not be surprised. This saddens me, that such a cool unit is relegated to fluffy-sucky-lists-only status.

- Larry

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:21 pm
by KevinC
But Dragon Ogres without great weapons are 65 pts. Comparing Inferno Golems to them, they are on par. Dragon Ogres have +1M, +1W, +1I, reroll panic and have Storm Rage. Where as Golems have +1T, +1LD, Flaming Attacks, Magical Attacks, ITP.

So again, if I lowered Inferno Golems, people would def complain that these guys are so much better than Dragon Ogres and Treekin, face it really tough Ogre type models in Warhammer are priced at 65 pts. Yhetees (who are awesome, btw) are also 65 pts.

I don't know why you're even saying Treekin and Dragon Ogres are over priced? Have you ever fought against these units - they are so good and tough to kill (I panic when I see these units on the board). Same goes with Yhetees. Even if they are overpriced, that is the way they are priced in Warhammer and I cannot reduce Inferno Golems without lower their states.

Kevin out

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:41 pm
by Larro
Dragon Ogres and Treekin are overpriced. You just don't want to listen

And, even working under your assumption that Treekin are somehow fairly priced, they are 55 pts. A Golem is 65 pts.

Same S, T, W, and A. Both Cause Fear. Both ItP.

Treekin are 10 pts. cheaper. They also get a Ward save. They move through Woods for free. And they have Magical Attacks.

What do Golems get for their 10 pts. more per model? Nothing outside of +1LD which is largely irrelevant on an ItP unit, and some Flaming attacks. Should I dance over Flaming attacks? You're not throwing these guys at bricks of Plaguebearers anyways. You're Blunderbussing the Plaguebearers.

And as for Dragon Ogres, honestly, just ask Birdoff or anyone else who has used them. They're amazingly overpriced.

- Larry

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:53 pm
by KevinC
Larry lets assume I agree with you. This is a 'fan list' so how can I make a unit cheaper when comparatively they are similar to units that are higher in price? If I did something like this, that will only upset people losing to a 'fan list', it is a very delicate issue, it is not just me saying 'Golems are 65 pts the world should be this way'.

Kevin out

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:51 pm
by mattbird
Larro wrote:Dragon Ogres and Treekin are overpriced. You just don't want to listen

And, even working under your assumption that Treekin are somehow fairly priced, they are 55 pts. A Golem is 65 pts.

Same S, T, W, and A. Both Cause Fear. Both ItP.

Treekin are 10 pts. cheaper. They also get a Ward save. They move through Woods for free. And they have Magical Attacks.

What do Golems get for their 10 pts. more per model? Nothing outside of +1LD which is largely irrelevant on an ItP unit, and some Flaming attacks. Should I dance over Flaming attacks? You're not throwing these guys at bricks of Plaguebearers anyways. You're Blunderbussing the Plaguebearers.


- Larry


which would be an awesome argument, except that Treekin cost 65 points.

Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:58 pm
by mattbird
what I don't understand, Kevin, is that we have spent the last few weeks making things decidedly simpler. You have even eliminated simple, fluffy things like Rabble exploding, because you thought they were too complicated.

then you drop this potential new thing on us to test, which, with all the options, might be the most complicated unit in all of warhammer.

and all that is AFTER you steadfastly refused to decrease the points cost of Golems by even FIVE POINTS, because you thought they would be too good.

There is a lack of consistency in your decisions, and I don't really know what you are doing here?