Magic Items Comments Here

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Re: Magic Items Comments Here

Postby WickerNipple » Wed May 13, 2009 1:32 pm

grotsnot wrote:The word "genocide" is pretty apt, and I've never heard of anyone with sensibilities fragile enough to be bruised by its use.


The word was invented in 1944 for reasons that quite a few people are very sensitive to. If people are still sensitive about the holocaust, I promise you they're still sensitive about a word that was invented to describe it.
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Re: Magic Items Comments Here

Postby mattbird » Wed May 13, 2009 1:36 pm

grotsnot wrote:
Fitz wrote:I have a more fundamental problem with this item - its name. You must be able to come up with something a little less *ahem* colourful? You wouldn't make an item called the "Rod of Paedophilia" would you?

How in the hell is the word "Genocide" offensive? How have you even come close to comparing it to the word "paedophilia"?

You're playing a war game, (fictional )people get killed. Some of the (fictional) people aren't very nice, and want to kill other (fictional) people for some very unpleasant (fictional) reasons.

The word "genocide" is pretty apt, and I've never heard of anyone with sensibilities fragile enough to be bruised by its use.


I had immediate issues with this name when I read it, as well. It should definitely be changed.
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Re: Magic Items Comments Here

Postby Fitz » Wed May 13, 2009 3:55 pm

Easy now 'snotters, climb off the high-horse. I'm merely observing that it's pretty tasteless. I'm not claiming bruised sensibilities. The aim of this book, as I understand it, is to have it accepted and adopted by the wider gaming community. Use of words like Genocide is not conducive to that goal. It is a word, which for whatever reasons, has very unpleasant connotations for a large section of society.

If this was just a set of house rules aimed for a gaming group or two it wouldn't matter, but it isn't. The whole way this forum has been set out, and the book has been put together so far, suggests to me that the authors are intending to make it as professional as possible. My respectful suggestion is that it's an item that could be renamed. If the authors choose to ignore it, fine.
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Re: Magic Items Comments Here

Postby BenTheRat » Wed May 13, 2009 4:34 pm

The name doesn't bother me so much as the description. Some armies it seems really useful, while in others??

Is a Black Orc an Orc, what about a savage orc?
Is a Plague Monk still a skaven?
What if you are chopping at a chariot, does it count if the elves are inside?
as mentioned earlier, what daemons are the same race?
Is a chaos warrior the same as a Marauder?

Ok, enough of that. Just clean it up.
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Re: Magic Items Comments Here

Postby WickerNipple » Wed May 13, 2009 5:42 pm

I suggest just dumping it, or changing it to always autowound and adjusting the price.

An item that "only works against the army you're currently playing" strikes me as pretty silly. Plus, it's just not precise enough as Ben stated.
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Re: Magic Items Comments Here

Postby Garrett » Fri May 15, 2009 3:28 pm

Point about the 125 point banner-it's not worth it to take a banner that expensive that gives ITP when we're talking about an army that's fundamentally Ld9/10. I could (and would) pay that much to give the same bubble effect for stubborn, though.
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Re: Magic Items Comments Here

Postby pjschard » Fri May 15, 2009 4:06 pm

Ummm It's awesome in a rabble horde....
I loves me some ITP Rabble, better than night gobbos at half the price
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Re: Magic Items Comments Here

Postby Garrett » Sat May 16, 2009 2:12 am

Okay, I can see that. But if you're working with a dwarf-heavy army, the movement banner and the magic missile banner are really the only two worth having, and the magic missile banner is only worth it in a magic list.
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Re: Magic Items Comments Here

Postby Matt » Sat May 16, 2009 9:31 pm

WickerNipple wrote:I suggest just dumping it, or changing it to always autowound and adjusting the price.

An item that "only works against the army you're currently playing" strikes me as pretty silly. Plus, it's just not precise enough as Ben stated.


Call it the "Orphan Maker". Auto wounding isn't all that good though.

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Re: Magic Items Comments Here

Postby mariocerame » Sat May 16, 2009 9:57 pm

I understand why Genocide could be tender. I'd suggest a word that is equally brutal, ugly, and heinous if you want to be constructive instead of simply complaining.

However, please also consider the context of the game, which should have already deeply offended your sensibilities if you find that term so objectionable:
  • Savage orcs are based on Sub-Saharan Africans. They are called "savages," (how rude) done to the nines with bones in the noses and all the rest: a rather repugnant allusion connecting such people with frenzied monsters.
  • Forest Goblins are based on Native Americans, with little feathers on the head and are portrayed as terrible little monstrous cretins: also a rather tasteless allusion.
  • The game models slavery, which in American history is a very touchy subject indeed.
  • The principal eastern-styled units in the game are the mongolian styled hobgoblins (green monsters) and ogres (obese monsters). Unkind to such ethnicities.
  • The most noble of races (high elves) are all Caucasian, somewhat Nordic (this should be an alarm bell). None of the normal humans are non-white. I haven't even seen so much as a tan Tilean. For figs sake, I have three colors of "flesh" from GW and none of them could depict the flesh of a person of color.
  • The old chaos dwarfs were based on Babylonians--thus the pagan Bull worship and the rest. For you Bible (or Torah) scholars, who then would the sneaky gits and other slaves of the Babylonians represent?
If the word Genocide in the text of an evil, unholy axe upsets the reader, I marvel at how none of the rest of this has offended.

Now, no item name should seriously arrest the reader, but please, some context here given the game. I actually like the name as-is: a hideous, *evil* weapon, suggesting not merely the crimes of Nazi Germany, but in this our 21st century, referencing to all manner of horrors throughout human history. But most importantly, I think item names are the absolute least of anyone's worry at this point. Call it the Axe of Foo if you wish.

Game on.
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