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Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:05 pm
by DarkbloodSkullpulper
I also like Ronen's idea, and Renufus' follow-up.

Think it would be too much to allow the HP to go above his starting initiative? My gut says yes, though I really like the idea of having that option if there are no better choices for spell-targeting early in the game...

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:05 pm
by Hashuts Scion
I'm ok with this as well, although the +2 to bound was useful...

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:39 am
by Matt
I like the idea of the Init recovery spell, more than the increase bound effect.
After getting massacred for a second time by bull centaurs magically flung into the flanks, I'd also like to see the Magma Tide by limited to the High Priest, or limit it the units it affects. An extra movement effect on a M3 army isn't a problem, it's the 4 movement effects on the M8 shock troops that break it.


So to combine ideas,
Hail Hashut! becomes a init recovery spell.
Magma Tide becomes High Priest only.
Daemonsmiths could get access to the other 4 spells.

In a magic spamming army, you could dump 4 slow moves followed with a magical charge; and any other bound items. Maybe make the +1 movement banner simply a bound 3~5 magma tide, with the kicker of "chaos dwarf only".


In the end, I still think it is ridiculous that chaos dwarves don't miscast. It just doesn't seem fluffy that a race that so recently acquired magic some how has mastered it so completely.
For those that asked, a level 4 wizard throwing 3 dice, twice each phase, has a 17/216 chance of miscasting; or about 8% per attempt. Over the course of 6 turns, he should miscast about once, on average. While the odds of dying from the miscast aren't great, ending a magic phase, or letting an enemy cast a spell are pretty harsh. Likewise, the wizard could lose a magic level, lose the spell he was attempting, or other nasty things. Finally, the loss of a wound is far more significant than the loss of Initiative. A chaos dwarf doesn't give up Half points for having lost initiative.

-Matt

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:06 am
by Renufus
DarkbloodSkullpulper wrote:I also like Ronen's idea, and Renufus' follow-up.

Think it would be too much to allow the HP to go above his starting initiative? My gut says yes, though I really like the idea of having that option if there are no better choices for spell-targeting early in the game...


No, I'd definitely cap it at his starting initiative.

Also, @Matt - I'd put money on the movement spell being capped at only one successful casting per unit and probably be limited to a 12" range as well, with the possibility of only affecting Dwarf units. It will be nerfed for sure in the next version.

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:27 am
by Larro
Matt wrote:For those that asked, a level 4 wizard throwing 3 dice, twice each phase, has a 17/216 chance of miscasting; or about 8% per attempt. Over the course of 6 turns, he should miscast about once, on average. While the odds of dying from the miscast aren't great, ending a magic phase, or letting an enemy cast a spell are pretty harsh. Likewise, the wizard could lose a magic level, lose the spell he was attempting, or other nasty things. Finally, the loss of a wound is far more significant than the loss of Initiative. A chaos dwarf doesn't give up Half points for having lost initiative.


100% correct, but still not telling the whole story.

Sure, a Chaos Dwarf doesn't suffer the other possible effects from Miscasting, but you're forgetting something amazingly horrific about casting as it is currently - he has a 1 in 6 chance of spell failure right off the bat. 1 in 6 for every spell! What other race can say that their Lord-level Mage has a 1 in 6 chance of spell failure? Add in to this the fact that on average you will comer dangerously close to losing all of your Init from failures and being removed as a casualty, and I think the phase has sufficient risk involved even if it does avoid the conventional Miscast table. Statistically you will throw 2 "1s" in 12 attempts, meaning it takes only very slight deviation to actually die, even with the Apparatus, which means the CD HP is actually much more volatile and likely to kill himself than most any other Level 4 Mage.

- Larry

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:15 am
by mattbird
Hail Hashut! becomes a init recovery spell.
Magma Tide becomes High Priest only.
Daemonsmiths could get access to the other 4 spells.


good ideas.

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:07 am
by Guy In Suit
seconded, really smart way to tweak the magic to both make it more balanced and make the high-priest less risky...

And larry, lots of casters have worse than 1/6 chance of failing a spell! When I Invoc spam I fail 1/3 the time! :P

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:53 am
by Larro
True, but if you fail 3 or 4 Invoke spams over the course of the game, you don't die, do you? :P

- Larry

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:31 am
by elrodogg
I have no problems with the danger of the lord going bye bye, especially if there is a spell to let him regenerate a pip of initiative he's lost. I like the downside many quirky special rules (one of the reason I take 2 stupid chariots and a stupid cav unit). The more and more the list is changed to having perfectly refined units, the more and more it veers off course of being a bottom-mid tier list. Rules like having your lord caster turn to stone because he drops the ball with a slight bit of deviation from normal rolling is good for a list.

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:43 am
by Guy In Suit
This would still have that... imagine being down to one pip of Initiative and casting Hail Hashut to get one back and rolling a one! :lol: