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Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:21 am
by Renufus
@Matt - The Wood Elf spell "Call of the Hunt" also prevents charge reactions.

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:11 am
by mattbird
I played against Kevin's CDs last night with my scroll caddy-led mortal chaos army. He went magic heavy, with 2 bound items, HP, and daemonsmith. I thought his magic phase was pretty balanced, and had no complaints.

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:21 pm
by Border Reiver
Matt wrote:
Border Reiver wrote:I'm not getting the hate that some people have for the Magma Tide Spell/prayer (whatever we decide it is)

These are the movement and movement affecting spells:

You left out the Beast Arcane item that grants the additional spell: "The Wild Call". 12" range, free charge for Beast Herds, Bestigors and Chaos Hounds. NO Charge Reaction.

That's actually the only "No Charge Reaction" spell left in the game (I can't find any others). I'd bet their is a reason that previous "no reaction" spells have been swapped out for "Hold or Flee" or "Normal Charge Reaction".

The "hate" for Magma tide is two games against a maxed chaos dwarf magic phase, where two large units of Bull Centaurs were magically thrown into the flank with no charge reaction allowed. Changing this to Dwarves/hobgoblins only, would help a lot. The best solution may be Dwarves/Hobs only, and the target may hold or flee (no stand or shoot). I think it is a good middle ground for the spell. In both games, early turns consisted of gun-line play, bombarding with warmachines (4 bolt throwers, 2 earth shakers), along with the slow moving spell. Once this burned through dispel scrolls (it doesn't take long), Centaurs advance and get magically spammed into combat. In both events, this crushed the flank and rolled into the center.

I've played with this, and against this, and it seems too good, and requires extremely simple tactics.


No other movement spell that affects units is restricted to a particular unit type and some can be used multiple times on the same unit (I'm thinking TK here). Restrict the spell to "Unit may be moved magically once per magic phase" then add "Charged units may make a normal charge reaction" and we've solved your problem.

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:54 pm
by Renufus
Border Reiver wrote:No other movement spell that affects units is restricted to a particular unit type


The Wild Call (Herds, Hounds, Bestigors only) and the Rune of Oath and Honor (no Gyrocopters or DoW) are.

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:12 pm
by Border Reiver
Alright, 2 exceptions, given that Incantations of Urgency can be used on chariots and cavalry and can be used multiple times on the same unit, and spells like the Wolf Hunts and Waagh affect cavalry, why is it unbalancing for the Magma Tide to affect a unit of bull centaurs or wolf riders?

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:23 am
by Hashuts Scion
The only reason I can think of is if you know you outclass your opponent in the magic phase, and are not sure you have the charge range, march to within 1 or 2", then move via the spell into contact. However, this same thing goes for TK/VC armies already, and we could be talking about blood knights, so I don't see this as a gamebreaker/OTT.

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:24 am
by method
yea, agreed.

leave magma tide available for the bull centaurs

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:39 am
by Matt
Hashuts Scion wrote:The only reason I can think of is if you know you outclass your opponent in the magic phase, and are not sure you have the charge range, march to within 1 or 2", then move via the spell into contact. However, this same thing goes for TK/VC armies already, and we could be talking about blood knights, so I don't see this as a gamebreaker/OTT.


Wolf hunts is also limited as who it can target.

Range of spells on the tomb king version is also more limited, as one of the casters has to be in the unit; and is also offset by the armies inability to march.

If you're setting it on par with the Vampire magic phase, you can hardly claim it is balance.
It like saying, the combo is balanced because Bull Centaurs only move as fast as Brettonians, only hit as hard as Chaos Knights, are supported with as many warmachines as dwarves, and the magic phase is like Vampire Counts; so it must be fair.

-Matt

Re: V3 High Priest and Magic comments here

PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:52 am
by method
well, we have to be careful, even if you want to nerf it, then EVERY cd player will just use the magic missle spell, all game..
you have to give it some options IMHO, as of right now the list could zap some dudes w/flails, then earthquake a chariot, preventing a charge, then charge the bullcentaurs into his lines all in one magic phase. thats pretty versatile.

MY fear, with everything else nerfed, cd magic phse will be shooting phase part 1, then we move into the shooting phase...