V3 Daemonsmith comments here!

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Re: V3 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby KevinC » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:11 pm

Just so I am completely sure. If I take an all hobgoblin army (except for maybe 1 CD unit as rare), I still get 4 DD? I'm hoping to playtest a battle of hobs only this Saturday and I want to be sure.


----------Yup the Hobgobs do get 4 Dispel Dice! Looking forward to hearing about your playtest!
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Re: V3 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby Aves » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:20 am

Not classifying deamonsmiths are wizzards is important for certain game rules, like warriors of chaos gift that lets sorcerer look at [url]wizzards[/url] spell list and cast those spells as their own.

Also because Deamonsmiths have 1 magic weapon from start, they cant get another 1, so its impossible to take 3 and still have powerfull melee characters, very balancing and well thought. And note from me, as long as rules created here are different from other armies have, CD army is viable and interesting. Keeping them separate, especialy with playstyle from other existing armies is what might coerce GW to renew support for CD.
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Re: V3 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby Dedwrekka » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:42 am

Aves wrote:Not classifying deamonsmiths are wizzards is important for certain game rules, like warriors of chaos gift that lets sorcerer look at [url]wizzards[/url] spell list and cast those spells as their own.

The Lore of Hashut doesn't have casting values, I don't think they'd be able to use it either way.

However, as you'll be forced to take a High Priest to survive the magic heavy armies at higher points, even if it's just to get Dispel Scrolls, you'd face the same situation there anyways.
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Re: V3 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby Larro » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:54 pm

The simple fix is as we said - give Demonsmiths access to Arcane Items, and have them generate only Dispel Dice (a la the Warrior Priest). Problem solved.

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Re: V3 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby mattbird » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:55 pm

I agree with Larro.

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Re: V3 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby Larro » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:31 pm

8-)

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Re: V3 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby KevinC » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:09 pm

Well I'd lean more towards giving him access to Arcane items, but he is not going to generate dispel dice. For the record, I think most players are way too conservative about magic defense. I challenge you to play some Chaos Dwarf (or even other army) games with little to no magic defense, it's not as bad as you might think. Remember that with Chaos Dwarfs, they can soak up lots of direct damage with their high Toughness and good armour saves (everything can get Chaos armour) and dispel the really major stuff with your 4-5 dispel dice pool.

As for Chaos Dwarfs, getting 4-5 dispel dice without any Wizards is great, plus you can get a 20 pt item that is nearly as good as a scroll. If one is so worried about magic defense, should they not simply take a High Priest anyway then? I mean what about all the Elf players that like to take a single Lord level wizard just for 4-5 scrolls (which is done a lot)?

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Re: V3 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby Aves » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:20 pm

I'd say that magic is very statistical in most armies, for direct damage anyway. D6 S4 hits is kinda nothing unles shot at something rly weak, its 3,5 hit and 1,75 wound on T4, before save.

but there are armies where magis is mean to overpower the game, VC and recasting animation od D6 wights on 1 powerdice, or having 2 corpse carts with ASF, and vanhels dance macabre,

So yes CD army can easily ignore 3-4 mages of Tzeench fireing hel upon them and win (sort of), but hardly anyone can ignore 2 extra charges a turn.

But letting demonsmiths have arcane items, just so some people could buy Dispellscrolls, or this aparatus that gives Attacks doesnt seem alright. Deamonsmiths are as name suggests demologists dark ritualistic engineers, so lets have fluff over game wisesesness.
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Re: V3 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby Larro » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:25 pm

If you keep it as 4 dispel dice base, then they don't need to generate dice, but they NEED access to Dispel Scrolls/Arcane Items.

IF you let them generate dispel dice as a Warrior Priest, then obviously the plan was to cut the dice back to 2. It was never meant to let them have 4 base PLUS 2-4 extra for HPs and DSs.

And honestly, if another person advances the notion of "Fluff > Gameplay," I suggest they go elsewhere and post. This is a forum for experienced WHFB players who are tournament players, trying to build an Indy GT approved list. Fluff should, and does, take a backseat to Gameplay, end of story. Units are thought out and pointed based on effectiveness and usefulness, not on fluff. The list should NOT be bound on taking the Lord-level "Mage" to have access to Dispel Scrolls, or Arcane Items in general. Demonsmiths are the only Mage-equivalent in the list in the Hero-slot, and so should have access to Arcane Items.

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Re: V3 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby Aves » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:38 pm

This is a forum for experienced WHFB players who are tournament players


What are you doing here?

Demonsmiths are the only Mage-equivalent in the list in the Hero-slot, and so should have access to Arcane Items.


I disagree, armies are ought to have different mechanics to introduce a variety of playable options to the game. this variety comes from fluff, wood elves live in woods and like bows, thats why rules are representing it.

If deamonsmiths are slavesacrificeing maniacs who construct deamon bound engines then rules are representing it,

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