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Chaos Dwarf Warrior comments here

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 12:00 pm
by mattbird
Please post all comments here

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:25 am
by mauleed
You should specify if they can stand and shoot with a blunderbus, and if so how it works.

Personally, I think they should hit all models in the enemy unit (instead of just the front rank as before) but still suffer the -1 to hit for a stand and shoot.

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:54 am
by elrodogg
So I know the purpose of the list is to create a lower-middle tier book, but the same problem that regular dwarf clansmen have is the problem with the ranked chaos dwarfs, the units are too expensive to be of value. Fully ranked unit of chaos dwarfs with command is going to end up being 250pts (9*25+25 for command), that's simply too many points for a unit which can easily be avoided. Perhaps cost the first 10 troops differently from the rest of the troops, say 9pts each for the first 10 and then 6 pts each for the rest. Once you get beyond the first 10 you're paying for a rank bonus at 45pts per rank. This fully ranked unit should cost in the 180ish department which a variable troop cost unit does, but while still keeping the minimum sized cost up.

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:01 am
by CrazyChaosLord
Drop the basic warrior including shield to 7 points.

If DE spear elves are only 8, Dwarves should be 7 since they are slow as hell.

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:24 am
by mattbird
Just to manage expectations here:

I don't think we want to break from the costs and abilities of Dwarfs in general. Dwarfs are established. You have to build off of them, not recost or re-ability the basic dwarf. Dwarfs have limitations built in, which need to stay there.

I do wonder if swivel guns should become unit attachments, or if there is an additional type of CD unit to take in Core. Those things are open.

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:31 am
by mauleed
The blunderbuss makes CD core a perfectly viable option.

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:41 am
by CrazyChaosLord
I'd put more Dwarves in Core.

Immortals! That is actually in an old piece of GW fluff. I'd say something like:

M WS BS S T W I A LD
3* 4 3 4 4 1 3 2 9

Equipment: Chaos Armor, Cursed Halberd

Cursed Weaponry: All attacks from an Immortal are armor piercing and magical.

Implacable advance: Immortals stride forward without fear or hesitation. To represent this implacable advance, when an immortal unit charges, add d3+1" to the charge distance. This extra movement is halved in the instance of a failed charge. During the remaining moves portion of the phase, the Immortals may move an additional d3+1" inches as per normal movement, but may not change formation or reform (They may wheel as normal.) If a friendly character is in an Immortal unit, the Immortals are bound to his base movement.

Points: 13/Immortal, 12 for Std, Champ, 6 for musician, may have banner = to 50 pts (1 unit)


The fluff is that they are smithies who begin to turn to stone, and must enhance themselves with mechanical parts to allow movement, hence the "Immortal" portion.

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:44 am
by elrodogg
Matt, there is no doubt that the regular dwarf is the build to go off of. I would just like to see the list reward people for taking ranked units of plain old chaos dwarf warriors, without the need to go blunderbuss route and was thinking outside the box is all. It's called chaos dwarfs afterall, not bull centaurs. Right now the list doesn't reward anyone for taking those 250pt point sinks.

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:33 am
by Charlie
I would echo Matt's sentiment that the Chaos Dwarfs need to be like normal Dwarfs, and probably cost the exact same as Dwarf Warriors. Similarly, I would see Obsidian Guard mirroring Longbeards or Hammerers, maybe slightly different abilities, but either upgrades on normal warriors with 1 upgrade for a core unit, yadda yadda.

If you want to tweak them away from normal dwarfs, maybe do it in the unit champ upgrade, or encourage people to take them with upgrade options. Make the Swivel gun a warrior upgrade that is basically a rattling gun without autohits as mentioned before. On the other hand, attaching more shooty units to core dwarf units just augments the gunline direction some people (those without masses of greenskins) will be taking anyway.

BAH! I will playtest, and pontificate afterwards. Besides, I WANT to play with slaves, so to hell with the stunties anyway.

Charlie

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 1:16 pm
by grotsnot
Why must chaos dwarves be identically statted and pointed to dwarves?

Compare high elves, wood elves, and dark elves.
Compare Empire Swordsmen to Brettonian Men at Arms.

Costs should be based on the internal balance of the book, not on another book.