Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

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Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

Postby elrodogg » Thu May 21, 2009 8:38 am

Dedwrekka wrote:I would take Obsidion guard anyways, just for ITP, fear, the extra point of strength, and the extra point of weaponskill all for only one point more than a Chaos Armor and great axe wielding Warrior.
Warrior + Great axe + Chaos Armor= 13 points per model
Obsidion guard = 14 points per model


You're forgetting that it allows you to have a very survivable core troop without having to sacrifice your special slots. As such, it should be that expensive. Personally, I would forgo the great weapons and opt for shields. Normal dwarfen power armor saves are good, but 2+ terminator saves in h2h are fantastic. The addition of chaos armor as a choice is what makes ranked chaos dwarf units viable choices as compared to the obvious blunderbuss.
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Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

Postby mattbird » Thu May 21, 2009 9:46 am

Hashuts Scion wrote:I am curious about one thing, and it can be ignored as the fluff can take into account that when the CDs march to war, they bring as many CDs as possible at that moment.

BUT, if the CDs are supposedly a small amount, is expecting a majority of the forces to be CDs logical and realistic according to the fluff? And if not, what could be a logical limitation on the number of units of CDs?

Just a thought...


well, they have the same "small numbers" fluff as High Elves, and they go to war en masse....
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Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

Postby Grimstonefire » Thu May 21, 2009 1:29 pm

I won't comment on the chaos armour in terms of balancing as I see the arguements for and against.

Something to consider is that Armour saves could be a relative term. So light armour is 'light', heavy is 'heavy', and chaos armour aka gromril is sufficiently heavy that only the toughest CD could wear it (the professional elite units). Chaos Warriors are seriously 'ard men, whereas your average CD who spends most of his time drinking beer and counting gold is not that 'ard.

Not to mention the fluff connotations of having the majority of the male population with armour bound to their skin (unless you amend that fluffwise)... I suggest actually stating what the Chaos Armour save is :D . Also adding a Chaos Dwarf Special Equipment list.

That aside I think with additional and great weapons as options they don't need spears. They are unfluffy for any type of dwarf in warhammer.

I would edit all the upgrading of command to 'upgrade one ... to ...'. To save abuse.
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Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

Postby Dedwrekka » Thu May 21, 2009 5:27 pm

Grimstonefire wrote:That aside I think with additional and great weapons as options they don't need spears. They are unfluffy for any type of dwarf in warhammer.

somewhat sad to my mind, as I'd like to see a slow moving army that's naturally prey to faster moving cav evolve a better defense against it, the spear or pike seems nice.

However, it would require people to extensively modify their models, and change tactics, so it's not best for a list like this.
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Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

Postby Garrett » Sun May 24, 2009 11:04 am

I think spears addressed the key problem we had with the regular CD units before, namely they couldn't actually do anything in combat but soak wounds for a character and give static res. Spears/Chaos Armor and the eruption gun were exactly what they needed.
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Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

Postby Matt » Mon May 25, 2009 10:14 am

Garrett wrote:I think spears addressed the key problem we had with the regular CD units before, namely they couldn't actually do anything in combat but soak wounds for a character and give static res. Spears/Chaos Armor and the eruption gun were exactly what they needed.


I promise you, an extra rank of S3 attacks won't get the job done either.

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Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

Postby Garrett » Mon May 25, 2009 10:23 am

It's better than nothing, really. And the reality is, a big unit of dwarfs is generally going to only need 1 or 2 wounds to win combat, with their toughness.
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Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

Postby Ring87 » Mon May 25, 2009 8:53 pm

I love the spear option. Not the most effective but who cares different is good. It opens up modeling options and is balanced. If I do the army, which I might, my Chaos Dwarves will have spears...when your short that extra reach makes all the difference.
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Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

Postby Alric » Tue May 26, 2009 3:01 am

Dedwrekka wrote:
Grimstonefire wrote:That aside I think with additional and great weapons as options they don't need spears. They are unfluffy for any type of dwarf in warhammer.

somewhat sad to my mind, as I'd like to see a slow moving army that's naturally prey to faster moving cav evolve a better defense against it, the spear or pike seems nice.

However, it would require people to extensively modify their models, and change tactics, so it's not best for a list like this.


I agree with Grim and Ded, dwarfs with spears ? even chaos dwarfs , maybe you should consider other options ?

like....
Use something like the original swivel guns (12" range, S6 -2sv 1W), they can be placed in regular CD warrior units, and can be used if charged.

Ive gotten by using banners and magic standards and heros. I do think CD's need a hammer like unit with high weapon skill and str like the obsidian guard.

I think theres a good arguement to be made for how far from RH list you should go. As a CD player using this list I would need to be ready to explain changes to my opponents and the reasoning behind the changes.
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Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

Postby mattbird » Tue May 26, 2009 9:17 am

Don't forget, Dwarfs used to have access to spears, up through 5th Ed. ;)

I think we're close to sold on the current version of the swivel gun (eruption gun) / Warrior unit interaction. Spears I don't think are useful (neither are extra hand weapons, which are worse than spears), but they could be fun are are potentially useful, unlike other potential weapon options for dwarfs. Halberds and flails would be useless compared to great weapons, and I think Kevin wanted some other weapon options present.
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