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Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:09 pm
by mattbird
nope, it's totally different. No more 12" fire zone template at all. No more hitting multiple units. All the old rules are wiped out.


You pick a single target unit as per normal shooting restrictions. Each model in the target unit is hit on a 4+. End of story.

Note that you can also, by these rules, fire "normally" (ie, NOT a Concentrated Volley).

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 12:53 am
by allanmcnab
bleah, I must admit, I never saw the real issue with the previous blunder rules, though I have not tried them out with the chariots. really other than Jim wilson complaining that they were the most broken unit ever while running them down with his star dragon no one seemed to have a real issue with them. people understood the rules, and as long as they weren't earthshook took a round of shooting or even two before charging them and annihilating them with a unit that cost less. a 3" move is really the only way they ever got to hit anything, and after the first time people learned not to put 2 ranked infantry units where they could be hit. the 4 man rank for strength was bogus, but that's fixed now, why change them at all.

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 8:39 am
by Hashuts Scion
I'll wait and see the new rules in the context of the entire 3rd edition playtest before I pass judgement, but the fire zone was what made this weapon unique. Almost every other army has a missle weapn unit that can shoot at longer range, even gobbos with short bows. Only chaos with throwing weapons are shorter, for the most part. And now it seems like the new rules does away with that as well.

Just curious, what was the imputus for doing so?

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 8:44 am
by Guy In Suit
Not to speak for the designers, but I really like this change. Players who never played against the RH list are like 'WTF?' when it comes to fire zones and it takes a few minutes to explain. Also this cures the firing at a single model conundrum.

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:56 am
by mattbird
Just something to try out to see if it's simpler and a bit less powerful. Nothing definite. We can always go back to the fire zone if players don't like it.

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 10:25 am
by Matt
mattbird wrote:Just something to try out to see if it's simpler and a bit less powerful. Nothing definite. We can always go back to the fire zone if players don't like it.


I like the changes. As mentioned earlier, people who have never faced the fire box will be much happier.

I also like the increased range. Not on the front end of the shooting, but on the back. If any part of your target is within 12", you can hit the whole unit. You should be able to get 2-3 bursts off before melee. Combined with bolt throwers, chariots and rare unit hammers, it makes for a viable list.

-Matt

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:51 pm
by warmongerclub
I totally agree with this one. The fire zone was yet another completely unique to WH rule, and as you all know by now, I think the fewer unique, special rules in this army, the better (given the nature of this list). And yes I know know it was in RH that way, but really that book is so old I think it has virtually no bearing on current WH. Plus RH was just a stop gap for the new edition, not well thought out by any means.

Jim

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:57 am
by DarkbloodSkullpulper
I think the proposed change is still a bit too weak against single models. If not using the concentrated fire rule, then the front rank will all shoot at S3, so against a monster, chariot, lone character, etc, the CD player can get off 5+ S3 shots rather than 1 s5, right? That doesn't really fix the "problem" of blunderbusses being effective only against massed infantry units. The old rules are still better against small cav units, too. Granted, when the target is a large target, it does make things significantly better, since all Annihilators can shoot.

Here's a simple suggestion - regular fire mode would allow a number of s3 shots equal to the number Annihilators in the firing unit (essentially treating any target as a large target for purposes of LOS), while the concentrated fire would be a number of shots at s3+ rank bonus (max of 5) equal to the number of models in the target unit.

Does anyone remember the specifics of the old "concentrated fire" rule, which allowed the entire unit to turn their guns on a single model? Was it one autohit per rank?

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:48 am
by Border Reiver
If I understand the proposed rules correctly if I choose to fire normally, then every model in a unit that is within 12" is hit on a 4+ at S3 or I can choose to concentrate my fire - whereby every model in the front rank shoots and hits on a 4+, at base S3, going up to a max S5 if I have the additional ranks.

Is that correct?

What was so difficult about the old rules? The unit was great against massed infantry, but pretty much sucked against multiple wound models, and it was fairly easy to understand (all you really needed to explain it to your opponent was a sheet of clear plastic 12" x the width of your unit.

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:16 pm
by Grimstonefire
What was so difficult about the old rules? The unit was great against massed infantry, but pretty much sucked against multiple wound models, and it was fairly easy to understand (all you really needed to explain it to your opponent was a sheet of clear plastic 12" x the width of your unit.


Unless I missed the sarcasm I think you just answered your own question there... ;)