Page 5 of 6

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:20 pm
by Guy In Suit
I like the new rules. Still can ravage a ranked unit (but only one) and 5 S5 shots are a hell of a lot better than 1 S5 against big stuff. I also interpreted that the strength doesn't change between firing types, so if you have 3 ranks you'd be S5 in either scenario. If you ahve to give up the S5 then they are significantly worse and should be costed accordingly.

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:24 pm
by Larro
IF you're right about the shots being S5 for non-massed fire as well, you're right, they're good to go, though I'm unsure as to whether that clause applies only to the concentrated firing BBs and not single firing.

- Larry

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:27 pm
by mattbird
Border Reiver wrote:If I understand the proposed rules correctly if I choose to fire normally, then every model in a unit that is within 12" is hit on a 4+ at S3 or I can choose to concentrate my fire - whereby every model in the front rank shoots and hits on a 4+, at base S3, going up to a max S5 if I have the additional ranks.

Is that correct?

What was so difficult about the old rules? The unit was great against massed infantry, but pretty much sucked against multiple wound models, and it was fairly easy to understand (all you really needed to explain it to your opponent was a sheet of clear plastic 12" x the width of your unit.


If you concentrate fire, then every model in the target unit gets hit on a 4+. Effectively the same as if they were all fully hit by the template in the current RH rules.

So for a unit of 15 greatswords, for instance, you'd roll 15 dice, with each roll of 4+ being a hit.

The old rules were easy to understand, just complicated to work out, as you could hit multiple units, and there were partial hits involved, when you needed to roll a 4+, then a 4+ to hit. Then if your back 2 ranks of blunderbusses were out of range, the strength would vary from str 3-5.

It just took a lot more time to work out than this trial version.

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:31 pm
by mattbird
Guy In Suit wrote:I like the new rules. Still can ravage a ranked unit (but only one) and 5 S5 shots are a hell of a lot better than 1 S5 against big stuff. I also interpreted that the strength doesn't change between firing types, so if you have 3 ranks you'd be S5 in either scenario. If you ahve to give up the S5 then they are significantly worse and should be costed accordingly.



In the version I posted, when you fire normally it is just strength 3, no strength addition for extra ranks.

Having tried the posted rules in a few games, I'm not sure they are significantly worse in this new version, and they may in fact be somewhat better than the RH version. The ability to target things in your LOS without turning directly to face them was pretty potent, as was not worrying about firing on intervening friendly models.

This one needs to be tried out, really, before any conclusions can be made. I'd suggest keeping mental track each time you fire them- was this version better than the template one? what would the differences have been?

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:05 pm
by Guy In Suit
Hmm... well if they are only S3 then the current points cost is more than adequate. 5 S3 shots at 12 inches is gnoblar-tastic.

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:59 pm
by Larro
I mean, were Blunderbuss broken in the old edition? Seriously, not everything needs a points increase.

- Larry

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:43 pm
by Alric
mattbird wrote:
Border Reiver wrote:If I understand the proposed rules correctly if I choose to fire normally, then every model in a unit that is within 12" is hit on a 4+ at S3 or I can choose to concentrate my fire - whereby every model in the front rank shoots and hits on a 4+, at base S3, going up to a max S5 if I have the additional ranks.

Is that correct?

What was so difficult about the old rules? The unit was great against massed infantry, but pretty much sucked against multiple wound models, and it was fairly easy to understand (all you really needed to explain it to your opponent was a sheet of clear plastic 12" x the width of your unit.


If you concentrate fire, then every model in the target unit gets hit on a 4+. Effectively the same as if they were all fully hit by the template in the current RH rules.

So for a unit of 15 greatswords, for instance, you'd roll 15 dice, with each roll of 4+ being a hit.

The old rules were easy to understand, just complicated to work out, as you could hit multiple units, and there were partial hits involved, when you needed to roll a 4+, then a 4+ to hit. Then if your back 2 ranks of blunderbusses were out of range, the strength would vary from str 3-5.

It just took a lot more time to work out than this trial version.


Looking for some clarification.

First in the original rules you always measured range from the front rank 'only' so 'if your back 2 ranks of blunderbusses were out of range, the strength would vary from str 3-5." should never have been an issue, it's clearly stated in the original rules.(In such an example all enemy models within 12 inches of the front rank of the shooting chaos dwarf unit would be in the fire zone box.)
Several war machines as well as spells use templates that involve partial hit "and there were partial hits involved, when you needed to roll a 4+" so this should have been routine for determining models hit.

The only complication I had was explaining how my 1 unit could hit multiple units. If you think of the blunderbuss attack like a war machine or spell that uses a template then it is easier to explain.


Question - whats the difference in the 2 attacks , normal and concentrated volley ? just the move and shoot option ? you move you can only make 12 inch range S3 attack ? you dont move you do get the rank bonus at 12 inch range ? How many attacks are made for the regular attack ? (front rank only at 12 inch range?)

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:25 pm
by mattbird
Alric wrote:Question - whats the difference in the 2 attacks , normal and concentrated volley ? just the move and shoot option ? you move you can only make 12 inch range S3 attack ? you dont move you do get the rank bonus at 12 inch range ? How many attacks are made for the regular attack ? (front rank only at 12 inch range?)


They can both move and shoot.

The "normal" shot is a 12" move and shoot str 3 no penalty weapon. Assuming you have a unit of 15, you may want to use this if:


Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:20 pm
by allanmcnab
Not that it's a big thing, but there were no "partial" hits in the RH list. If something was partially hit, it was a 456 just as if it was fully covered.

Re: Chaos Dwarf Warrior version 2 comments here!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:16 pm
by mattbird
really? :shock: :oops: