V3 Annihilator comments here!

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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby Larro » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:55 pm

That looks simple and straight forward to me, and it's certainly not game hanging at 12 pts. per model and 180 pts.+ per unit.

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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby DarkbloodSkullpulper » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:25 pm

Oh, and I think it's worth debating whether or not magic items or other effects that cause a negative to shooting should have any effect upon Annihilators. In my game vs. VC, I think the grave guard should have been -1 to hit because of a banner or bloodline power or something; it's almost to the point where every single list has some option like that. That's all well and good when you've got hangunners or crossbows or bolt throwers pegging away from 24"+ away, because those shooters can then redirect to a different target after the reveal... Annihilators will not get that option, most likely. Yes, yes, there is other shooting that can be directed at suspect units early on to help identify this problem. I just have a strong preference for no modifiers to the 4+ hit at all, just like for template partials.
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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby mattbird » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:16 am

A new suggestion that has come around to simplify things further:

--------------------------------

Blunderbuss
12" range
no to hit penalities or bonuses apply
str5
may fire in 3 ranks
may move and fire
--------------------------------

The point cost would need to change, perhaps 13pts each. I think str5 may be a bit much... would str4 be good enough?
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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby Guy In Suit » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:31 am

I'd do S4 AP, same as a handgun. I like these rules. Just be warned this is going to make them VERY good against OGres et al, which they used to be horrible at. (Not saying thats bad, just different, and a flying wall of Shrapnel should mess with an ogre...)

Assuming 15 Busses with two rounds of shooting at S4 AP (M7 or less and you SHOULD get two rounds...)

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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby Larro » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:40 am

Wait a minute - WHY would you INCREASE their points-cost if you changed to those rules? It's better vs. non-ranked units, OK I get that, but significantly worse vs. ranked units, unless your unit of BBs is the same size as them, which is not likely. am all about the 12 pt. BB with the unit rules as is. Is it really that complicated to just say "hey look, 12 models are in range, I hit your guys on 4s"??? It's just as simple as any other shooting unit without the old imaginary box rules, which we've already eliminated. Honestly, who has trouble understanding that the range is 12", all models within range are hit on a 4+? This is Warhammer 101.

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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby Guy In Suit » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:44 am

Larro wrote: Honestly, who has trouble understanding that the range is 12", all models within range are hit on a 4+? This is Warhammer 101.

- Larry


The problem isn't understanding, it is execution. Especially on the edge of fire arcs. When measuring range to a uit, it is very easy using a tape to see if yo can get to the outer edge, but getting to models in rear ranks is much more difficult with the tape measure. Standards and spears get in the way, you can knick the opponents models, and its hard to judge if the facings are skewed (you are comparing an arc to the segments formed by the ranks after all.)
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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby mattbird » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:46 am

maybe let's figure out the rules we all like best first, then address point cost.

The effectiveness against non-ranked units seems a bit too good..?
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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby Larro » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:32 pm

mattbird wrote:The effectiveness against non-ranked units seems a bit too good..?


As the proposed S5, 3-rank firing unit? Yes, though not overly good because it appears they're NOT Move and Fire, and are only 12" once again, so we're looking at one volley, maybe 2 on a S&S. And they're significantly worse vs. ranked units. I suggest we keep the BB as-is - a unique and short ranged weapon which deals with only the weakest non-ranked units (S3 solo shots), but can put a hurting on ranked guys. Don't give me nonsense about measuring ranges and templates, because we do it with stone throwers, mortars, and flame weapons. No different here.

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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby Guy In Suit » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:52 pm

Larro wrote:
mattbird wrote:. Don't give me nonsense about measuring ranges and templates, because we do it with stone throwers, mortars, and flame weapons. No different here.

- Larry


So when you use those weapons, you measure a 12" arc from the front of a five-model wide unit, forming a wholly unique parabola? No wonder you win so easily :orcsslobber:
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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby Larro » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:24 pm

Wtf are you talking about? You don't have to do that at all. You just measure for each of the front rank models. If they're within 12", the target is hit. End of story. You're making it seem like it's more complicated than it is. It's no different than measuring with a unit of 10 Xbows, if half are in and half are out of long/short range, etc.

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