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Re: V3 chaos dwarf warrior comments here!

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:42 pm
by Border Reiver
But, unless you have an army of 3rd ed models - all the non-converted CD models come with great weapons.

If you are creating a list with the option to equip troops with x, y and z, why would you not presume that a sizable portion of people will use the options available? Why would you presume that well, its not overpriced if they go with only z or only with x and y.

Because no one will take chaos armour and great weapons to get the best save they can right?

Re: V3 chaos dwarf warrior comments here!

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:03 pm
by Grimstonefire
Suggestion I made for the last (or first) version:

Considering the V3 Chaos Dwarf warrior is paying +1 point for chaos/ gromril armour that the dwarfs, I suggest making the chaos armour upgrade +2pts for starters. That brings them back in line with the dwarf equivalent.

If the aim is to remain balanced that is as far as a points drop can go on anything. I'm hoping they will drop gromril 1 point in 8th, but in the mean time I don't think we could justify that here.

Re: V3 chaos dwarf warrior comments here!

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:25 pm
by Larro
Birdoff, I hear what you're saying, but hear me out. Even at 12 pts., at S3, all they do is not die, but that's not enough to win combats. Ask Jarrett about standard Dwarf Warriors and how lousy they are. Ask Ronen (who by the way, "+1d" my remark about them being 1 pt. overprice).

Look, I get your points. 2+ Save in HTH, and Core, so you think they're viable. Still, they're going to come in at 240 + Command for 20 models, that can't kill anything and will be outnumbered by most things. When you compare them to normal Dwarfs, look at Longbeards. 3+ Save, but S4, WS5, and panic rerolls, for less points. That should say something right there. Or Ironbreakers, who are +1 pt. more, but are S4 and WS5 - substantially better.

CD Warriors by themselves are fine, but the Chaos Armor could easily be +3 pts. instead of +4 pts., and no one would bitch. At the moment, I see no reason to take the Chaos Armor compared to taking a standard 3+ Save Dwarf, for 4 pts. less per model. I can buy more models this way, and get a unit with a 5th rank to preserve +3 Rank Bonus and Outnumbering for much longer, which greatly outnumbers the potential benefits of Chaos Armor. Trust me, they're not going to suddenly become OTT since they still can't kill anything, and you're still torn between Annhiliators and these guys for your Core. The 1 pt. decrease makes them a little more attractive compared to CDs without the armor, that's all it does.

- Larry

Re: V3 chaos dwarf warrior comments here!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:12 pm
by Poxous
I understand the issues here. Tough to balance the choices so we want em all. I think not having chaos armor is ok. I think having it might be too much. Every unit need not be completely awesome. It's ok to have clan dwaves, clan rats, halberdiers, orc boys, ect... well it is to some people!

Re: V3 chaos dwarf warrior comments here!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:27 pm
by Larro
I understand the sentiments, but I just don't think these guys are even worth the Chaos Armor upgrade, meaning I think it's perfectly fine to stay. I really don't think it's worthwhile to pay so many more pts. for a +1 save on S3 guys who have trouble killing anything, and are tough enough at a 3+ save so as to not warrant the price for the 2+. If you think it's too OTT so be it, but I really think anyone buying 2+ Save CD Warriors is doing you a favor anyways, as it means less troops on the board all around.

- Larry

Re: V3 chaos dwarf warrior comments here!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:00 pm
by method
agreed. 3+ is fine