Page 2 of 4

Re: Obsidian Guard comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 3:08 pm
by Punk
The unit does need something to stand out a bit...

...2 attacks...

Maybe give them the ability to use both GW and a shield in combat...its a nice small boost to armor without adding stubborn or a new rule to the unit

Re: Obsidian Guard comments here

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:42 am
by Emperors Reckoning
More attacks seems un-dwarf-y to me. I like the ideas of keeping the improvements cursed weapons and chaos armor and such.

Re: Obsidian Guard comments here

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:33 pm
by Matt
Call me crazy, but isn't an Iron Breaker with a great weapon 14 points? If so, being immune to psychology and causing fear for 1 point more is a great deal.

As for people not wanting to take them, I would expect to see the 3 core units most likely being 3 units of 10 to 15 CD with blunderbusses. Plenty of room in that for these guys.
I think the reason you won't see these guys isn't because they are a bad choice, but because the other special choices are very good, and a lot cheaper.

-Matt

Re: Obsidian Guard comments here

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:49 am
by Anger Worm
If you can't make ITP and fear work with a LD10 army and BSB I don't know what your problem is.

My main quibble, first and foremost in game terms, and secondly in fluff, is their survivability. These sound like CD's uber-elite. While I think a ward is too extreme, they should be more survivable in lieu of being stubborn.

I think they should have chaos armor giving them a 2+ armor save. And personally I think "immune to fire" wouldn't be too much to add to this to give them a particular hardiness against certain magic ("obsidian", or "forged obsidian"). Cost should remain the same.

Re: Obsidian Guard comments here

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 6:48 am
by mattbird
(they do have chaos armor currently)

Re: Obsidian Guard comments here

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 7:41 am
by Dedwrekka
My suggestions, and I'll figure this out more as I playtest, are:
-Drop great weapons to the options list, and drop the base points accordingly
-Remove ITP, put in stubborn
-"Cursed Weapons: Any weapon wielded by the Obsidion Guard has the armor piercing rule"

The last one has just been my personal favorite for a while.

Re: Obsidian Guard comments here

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 2:21 pm
by Anger Worm
But not immune to fire which leaves them open to metal spells. The only other thing I'd consider would be killing blow.

Re: Obsidian Guard comments here

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 1:31 pm
by mikkjel
Id rather have a small points reduction and move them close to less hitty, less stubborn harder to kill black guard. Chaos dwarves do more damage than dwarves, but have less staying power. Atm the use Im seeing for the unit is running them as a bunker and focus point for a rabble/goblin horde, having a cheap bsb and general and making the rest of your army extremely tarpit-y with reroll psychology on 10, and break tests on 10 with a re-roll. You have big units, so its up to you if taking the ItP banner is worth it.

Re: Obsidian Guard comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:12 am
by DarkbloodSkullpulper
I like having the option of a 2+ save in combat or S6 from the great weapon - it's like having an upgraded version of black orcs without the Ld liabilities. ITP and cause fear should make them a great bunker, with the option of swinging away with great weapons if needed. They might be underpointed at 14 per.

Anything better than this any you're headed into OTT territory and out of mid-tier armyland.

Re: Obsidian Guard comments here

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 7:53 am
by Grimstonefire
Moved from my feedback thread:

I will break down the costs for the current Obsidian Guard. Bear in mind that this is only a rough indication before any playtesting (the fiddle factor).

Basic Profile = 8 pts
Chaos Armour= 4 pts
Great Weapon = 2 pts
Immune to Psychology = 3pts
Fear = 3pts

The equivalent would basically be an Ironbreaker without shield and a great weapon instead. So far that much is balanced. The current incarnation of Hammerers actually effectively gets Stubborn for free. You could combine a hammerer and an ironbreaker and throw in fear?

So I would be tempted to say 17pts a model:
Basic Profile = 8 pts
Chaos Armour= 4 pts
Great Weapon = 2 pts
Fear = 3pts
Stubborn - Free

That would be 'ard , but still balanced.

If you really wanted to go to town you could add one of these, but at 17 pts I personally don't think they really need it.
Armour piercing blades = 1 pt
Magical Attacks = 2 pts
Killing Blow = 1 pt
Hatred (specific) = 1 pt
Hatred (general) = 2 pts