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Re: V3 Bull Centaur comments here!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:48 am
by Larro
Personally, they're fine. T4 4+ save vs. shooting for 21 pts. is hardly a bargain, as they'll go down with or without Chaos Armor to any concentrated shooting, be it Xbows or Hguns. They're not exactly 1+ Save Empire Knights for 23 pts., even if they do have a 2nd attack. They're great as is, and with CA, become very fairly priced.

- Larry

Re: V3 Bull Centaur comments here!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:13 pm
by Guy In Suit
Well, maybe I'm balking at the Amulet of Hashut BSB that seems to show up in almost every list with BC's. That item is just such a no brainer. It turns a strong but easily manageable unit into something that hits almost as hard as frenzied chaos knights! :shock:

Re: V3 Bull Centaur comments here!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:02 pm
by Border Reiver
that combination also requires the dedication of a character slot and around 150 pts, so I think it would balance out.

Re: V3 Bull Centaur comments here!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:06 pm
by Guy In Suit
I think it should be 50 points. Also, i think Hatred would be more balanced as a magic banner for 35pts, which BC's should be allowed to take. (Why can't a special choice take a magic banner, btw?) The flexibility of having Hatred on an M8 char so you can quickly put it wherever you need it is soooo good.

Re: V3 Bull Centaur comments here!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:34 pm
by Larro
I agree that the Hatred should be a Banner and not a mobile character who instills Hatred wherever he chooses to bounce.

- Larry

Re: V3 Bull Centaur comments here!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:16 pm
by Renufus
I would change the Icon of Dark Brotherhood to give hatred against all and Eternal Hatred against Dwarfs (40pts). Make the Amulet just a straight-up 5+ ward item (30pts). And yes, BC need a magic standard option.

Currently the BC+Amulet BSB combo is just brutal. I like that you can make the unit extra hitty but considering that 5+ wards are 30pts across the board, you're turning the unit into a blender of destruction for only 10pts more. This way, to get that 5+ ward on the BSB and a super hitty unit of BC's, you have to pay 10pts (standard) + 40pts (magic banner) + 30pts (5+ward) = 80pts instead of just 40, plus the risk of losing an extra 100VPs from the unit standard if that super hitty unit does get beaten in combat, and you can't bounce the hatred from unit to unit with a M8 hero.

Re: V3 Bull Centaur comments here!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:31 pm
by Hashuts Scion
Forgot to mention that CDs and Bull Centaurs both had options to carry a magic banner in 5th and RH.

So, I agree the BCs should get an option to carry a magic banner.

Re: V3 Bull Centaur comments here!

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:12 am
by Matt
Larro wrote:Personally, they're fine. T4 4+ save vs. shooting for 21 pts. is hardly a bargain, as they'll go down with or without Chaos Armor to any concentrated shooting, be it Xbows or Hguns. They're not exactly 1+ Save Empire Knights for 23 pts., even if they do have a 2nd attack. They're great as is, and with CA, become very fairly priced.

- Larry


That's apples to oranges. Empire knights aren't shock troops, all they do well is surviving being shot at by crossbows.

I think the cost of chaos armor, is good. It makes me think, do I really want it that much?
Shields at 1 point is a no brainer, as is great weapon at 2 points.
It's a good deal, I'd always take some. It isn't so good that I'd take 4 units.


I didn't notice this before, but the command is way to cheap. That's cheaper than any other cav command in the game.
Many cav units pay TWICE as much for command. At a bare minimum, I'd go with 14 for the standard, 7 for the musician, and 14 for the champ.
If you're going to give them a magic banner, maybe go 16/8/16. Chaos and Lizard heavy cav landed at 20/10/20. Dark elves came in at 16/8/16.
It's another 15 to 25 points per unit with full command. It brings them in line with other cav units.

If I'm wrong on that, please give me an example, I can't find anything near the 10/5/10 that moves 8.



With the line "Unit Strength 2 Infantry", do you mean that for all aspects of the game? Are they immune to effects that target cav? (beast cowers, pipes of doom, skaven bell...)
What might work better is call them Cav, but say, weapons and armor function as infantry on foot.


-Matt

Re: V3 Bull Centaur comments here!

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:51 am
by mattbird
I didn't notice this before, but the command is way to cheap.


good catch, thanks

With the line "Unit Strength 2 Infantry", do you mean that for all aspects of the game? Are they immune to effects that target cav? (beast cowers, pipes of doom, skaven bell...)
What might work better is call them Cav, but say, weapons and armor function as infantry on foot.


they're the same as Centaurs, so yeah, US2 infantry in all respects, including spells and whatnot.

Re: V3 Bull Centaur comments here!

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:08 pm
by Maul
The command is cheap. They work much better as a special choice. It was pretty painful having all these special slots and struggling to decide what to use for the rare before. I can live with the leadership 8. The chaos armor is badly needed option and they really should have a banner option.