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Re: Earthshaker comments here

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 9:48 pm
by Hashuts Scion
I agree with most of what everyone has written. Either bring back the 2d6 earthshake rule or increase the template to 5". I like the fact that if any part is under the template, the unit suffers, but 3" is just too small for the price.

Re: Earthshaker comments here

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 10:22 pm
by Alric
The Earthshaker needs to have an "earthshaker" effect , I suggest ussing the rules from Ravening Horde.

Re: Earthshaker comments here

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 6:45 am
by mikkjel
Make it shake stuff within 5" (still only damaging 3"). Honestly, the ability to reduce movement is great, and shouldnt be given too lightly.

Re: Earthshaker comments here

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:39 am
by Anger Worm
I think the earthshaker is too expensive in its current incarnation. The point cost is not unreasonable with the following changes:

-s5 partial, s10 under hole, no armor save, like a trebuchet. it's a lobbing cannon after all, not a catapult.
-movement penalty to any units receiving partial hits (including fliers and ethereal units). This rewards accurate guessing which I think is always appropriate, it's a valuable ability that is worth the extra cost, and it doesn't ignore some of the most powerful and game changing units in the game, ie. you get a possible solution that demands skilled use for the rare slot.
-misfire is 4-6 can't shoot this turn, 2-3 can't shoot this or next turn, 1 explodes (as a cannon)
-range should be extended to 72*

It's a simple fix that everyone can understand, and makes earthshakers both very useful, and costed appropriately.

Movement rule could be called unearthly shock, if people wonder why it affects all units in the area. Big booms alter everything

Re: Earthshaker comments here

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 3:57 pm
by Hashuts Scion
A quick fix could be lower the cost, but then give an additional cost for special shells that does something special. Examples could include:

Shockwave +2d6 earthquake ability
Death shell: affects undead, flyers, and etherial as well.

Re: Earthshaker comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:35 am
by DarkbloodSkullpulper
Alric wrote:The Earthshaker needs to have an "earthshaker" effect , I suggest ussing the rules from Ravening Horde.


Heh. I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

I'll second Anger Worm's good ideas, but suggest that if they get implemented, the point cost go up to 125. I'd rather have an expensive and useful Earthshaker than a cheap knock-off.

Re: Earthshaker comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 10:41 am
by Hashuts Scion
Based upon what was asked for, playtest using the current rules. Write specifically HOW the earthshaker did in its current format, how many units it affected, and overall effectiveness of it. At the same point, write what would have happend if the earth-shaking rule from RH was included. I know the games diverge here, but what I think is needed is to show how effective/ineffective the unit is compare to the point cost.

IF the unit is shown to be not worth its points VIA actual battle reports, THEN we have the data to back up what we are saying. A second option would be to replay the game, using a different list showing what would have happened if we took another unit instead. When GW noticed DEs armies always consisted of certain units over others, they changed the list so more units would have the likelihood of being chosen. I think we need to do the same here.

Re: Earthshaker comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 11:16 am
by Zhorn
While test games are certainly valuable, there are also the 1000s of "test games" played in the past using the RH rules.

The earthshaker, in it's RH format, is certainly a unit which is able to drain the fun out of games with and against chaos dwarfs. While the effect is pretty much needed and wanted in an army devoid of and skirmishers and other reliable light elements, the reduction of the earthshaking effect is also needed to make this less of a nobrainer choice (and rob the other player of all the fun).

I think - without any playtesting experience with the "new" rules to back up my claims - that the truth is somewhere in the middle of the RH rules and the current DoC test rules.

I have several ideas how the rules could be made better/funner but i'll see how it works. Next test game i will use double earthshaker.

Re: Earthshaker comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 6:05 pm
by adirangan
An obvious mickey-mouse fix here is to simply make the earthshaker a 0-1 choice
(perhaps 0-2 if you take a fighty-lord).

- Adi.

Re: Earthshaker comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:08 pm
by mattbird
A normal dwarf stone thrower is 80 pts, so for just 10 pts you get to affect the unit's movement as well. You may want to to be more powerful, or closer to the old version, but the current one is definitely worth 90 pts.