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Juggernaut comments here

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 12:10 pm
by mattbird
Please post all comments here

Re: Juggernaut comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 5:56 am
by KevinC
Hey guys, I think this was left out of the PDF (?)

Daemon Phlegm
In addition to the crew firing their blunderbusses, the Daemon-possessed Juggernaut may spew its corrosive hell phlegm via a twin-cannon mounted in the front of the tower, even if the tower has moved. This works as follows.

In the Shooting phase, nominate a target unit within line of sight of the Juggernaut and within its front arc. Roll the Artillery dice and then measure the range. If the target is within 12

Re: Juggernaut comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:30 am
by big al
I don't think the jugg should be Toughness 7, JMO.

Re: Juggernaut comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:50 am
by mauleed
The problem with this thing is it's 330 points and dies the first time a ranked unit with a decent armor save charges it.

I think for 330 points it needs stubborn.

And I'm a bit suprised it doesn't include terror (I know it would scare the crap out of me!).

Also, the base size should be defined, and it should say if a character displaces a crew.

Re: Juggernaut comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:10 am
by elrodogg
Agreed, it does indeed need some sort of tarpit ability. Either stubborn or unbreakable would work without a change of cost, 330 is already about the max it should cost.

Kevin, instead of a panic check, the tower should do something more "chaos dwarfish" and that is restrict the movement of the unit that is hit. I'd like to see it stop the unit dead in it's tracks so the next turn it can smash 'em. An ability like that will help to mitigate the slow movement of a mostly CD based list.

Re: Juggernaut comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:26 am
by mattbird
This unit is so complicated that I think it needs to be tested on the tabletop before any conclusions could be reached. Keep in mind that, based on the model itself, it should be complicated...

Re: Juggernaut comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:11 pm
by Sergrum
If you are going to make it stubborn do it on ld 8. or at least take the T down to 6 so str 3 has a CHANCE to hurt it.

Crazy unit. but badass

Re: Juggernaut comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 1:20 pm
by mauleed
Good point alex. If T3 can't hurt it then stubborn 9 is a bit much.

I just think it's the sort of unit that shouldn't get charged by 25 swordsmen, and expect to lose combat and run. Assuming the swordsmen did no wounds, the dwarves would do 1.5 back and lose by 3.5.

Another option: the thing counts as a BSB, but not for hobos or rabble. Then you could skip stubborn.

Re: Juggernaut comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 2:01 pm
by Poxous
I am a bit concerned with keeping to models from say 3rd ed when most people will never be able to see or get those models. I think working an idea around the models so they can work in the new list is a good thing but sitting the model on the table and making rules for how it looks is not so good.

Example: Juggernaut is gone. Replace with the CD Colossus: The Colossus is a massive constructed Iron/obsidian golem driven by a crew of a CDs.

7 2 3 5 6 2 6 5 9

US 6, Terror, Large Target, Forged Hate, Blessing of Hashut, Weapons of Hashut,

Forged Hate - The Colossus is part machine and part Daemon. It must check it's LD as the start of each turn if this test is failed he will move as fast as possible towards the nearest enemy visible. If he makes contact with the enemy he counts as charging for that turn.

Bull Charge - On the turn a Colossus charges it deals d3+1 impact hits. These hits are flaming.

Blessing of Hashut - Because the Colossus is forged in some of the Old Worlds hots furnaces flaming attacks do not harm it like they would normal troops. Any attack that is flaming is -1S when used on the colossus. In addition all the Colossus's attacks are flaming.

Forged of Black Iron: The secrets of the CD armor making is legendary. The Colossus is a giant display of their skills. A colossus has a 3+ armor save and MR1.

Weapons of Hashut: CD smiths see the Colossus as an opportunity to unleash all sorts of diabolical weaponry on the world. A Colossus may have up to one of the following weapon systems.

Piston Fists: The Colossus no longer has hands. Instead he has 2 giant pistons that slam down crushing enemies at his feet. The Colossus loses all his As on the profile. He now does 1d6+1 impact hits in combat every round. These attacks are still flaming.

Rocket Arm: The smiths replace one hand with a Deathrocket launcher. The Colossus has -1A and gains a death rocket. He may move and shoot this following the normal warhammer rules. The range, however, is reduced to 18" due to the limited size of the machine.

Head of Hashut: The Colossus has a great bull like head. The head gives the Colossus the ability to breath fire onto it's opponents. This attack uses the breath weapon template and is S4 with an addition -1 to the save( for a -2 total). This attack is flaming.

Swivel guns - on each shoulder the Colossus has a swivel gun. These guns can see 360 degree( gun only not the colossus!). They may fire if the colossus has moved normally( not if it marched or charged). All Colossus have a pair of swivel guns in addition to the other weapons.

Just an example of combining some old with some new to get a modeling opportunity for everyone to enjoy.

Re: Juggernaut comments here

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 3:28 pm
by Guy In Suit
Giants are stubborn 10, i don't see what the big deal is about stubborn 9. T7 is a BFD tho.