V4 Kollossus comments here!

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Re: V4 Kollossus comments here!

Postby Renufus » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:01 pm

mattbird wrote:poison.


I didn't think you could poison something that you otherwise couldn't wound.
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Re: V4 Kollossus comments here!

Postby Matt » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:42 pm

mattbird wrote:I would give it a 3+ save. anything that can hurt T7 will blow through that save anyway.


I'd go for a 3+. It should be enough to really help out against those poisoned attacks. Besides, those skinks won't hold up long against the return shooting.
It's not like this thing is stubborn or unbreakable. Hell, skinks with shields in good number have a decent chance at breaking this thing just with their basic combat res.

While Immune to Poison makes sense, and it would makes sense for chariots too.
Too bad current rules are that chariots can be poisoned.
Ask my assassins that fling poison stars at war alters.

-Matt
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Re: V4 Kollossus comments here!

Postby mattbird » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:34 pm

Renufus wrote:
mattbird wrote:poison.


I didn't think you could poison something that you otherwise couldn't wound.


is that true? if so, it solves the problem.
jer732 wrote:Birdoff makes me want to rage quit life
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Re: V4 Kollossus comments here!

Postby Aves » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:49 am

Renufus wrote:
mattbird wrote:
poison.

I didn't think you could poison something that you otherwise couldn't wound.

is that true? if so, it solves the problem.


Not exaclty, poisons are nullified if to hit roll is 7+ or higher, T score doesnt make you immune to it at all.

Poison immunity would be the only in the game, so i doubt its the way to go. Other gamer would start to feel that skeletons should be immune to poisons as well(sic). On the other hand 3+ armor save is what makes my day, not imbalanced, genuine chariot save.

Yet another issue, a cannon with d6 wounds.

there is a huge chance that 2 cannon balls will destroy this unit outright, or that will only kill 2 dwarfs. Either option is kinda silly. Maby if crew is being hit crew could be treated as unit in a building, so they will receive D6 hits from a cannon, BUT to cempensate it the tower itself can only receive 1 wound, from a single shot, "toughned with demonc essence, frame of the tower will prevent any multiplication".

This will place siege tower as potent missile screen, mediocrate short range attacker, and weak against close combat, its not unbreakable or stubborn so mased infantry would most likely destroy it with static combat result, and silly cannon for 100 points will not shot it before it reaches half of the table. (being a large target makes it very easy to aim , no hongoblin screen :S)
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Re: V4 Kollossus comments here!

Postby Matt » Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:34 am

mattbird wrote:Yet another issue, a cannon with d6 wounds.

there is a huge chance that 2 cannon balls will destroy this unit outright, or that will only kill 2 dwarfs. Either option is kinda silly.


And that is how the rules for monsters and riders work. A steggadon can take a few cannon hits, because on a 5+, a lone heroic skink takes one for the team.

Just keep in mind the often forgotten rule for templates. If the base is fully covered, the mount and all the riders/crew are all hit.



While I don't generally like how these large monster shoot outs work, we shouldn't be tweeking rules to cover for weaknesses in the core rules. That will lead us back toward the needlessly complex problem.

-Matt
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Re: V4 Kollossus comments here!

Postby Aves » Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:40 am

Just keep in mind the often forgotten rule for templates. If the base is fully covered, the mount and all the riders/crew are all hit.



Show me template that can fully cover a stegadon, since by the look of old CD siege tower we are looking at 50x75 mm, maby 50x100 mm base.

And while stegadon is busy with getting to the enemies table quarter it can give itself 5+ ward save :S.
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Re: V4 Kollossus comments here!

Postby Aves » Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:40 am

Just keep in mind the often forgotten rule for templates. If the base is fully covered, the mount and all the riders/crew are all hit.



Show me template that can fully cover a stegadon, since by the look of old CD siege tower we are looking at 50x75 mm, maby 50x100 mm base.

And while stegadon is busy with getting to the enemies table quarter it can give itself 5+ ward save :S.
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Re: V4 Kollossus comments here!

Postby mattbird » Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:33 pm

let's call it 50x100 base size.

I do think it needs an armor save, 3+ or 4+, I leave to Kevin...
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Re: V4 Kollossus comments here!

Postby Bunny_of_Khaine » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:12 am

Perhaps this has been brought up before but being as the Kollossus is a Siege Tower is their a specific reason why it always comes with Annihilators. Being as it is a meant as a Siege Tower you would think you would have your Combat Troops in it such as Warriors. I wouldn't put Obsidian Guard in their unless it took a special slot as well. Didn't know what it would be like if it was dropped down to a base of 210 (330-120[cost of 10 Annihilators]) and then upgraded with one of the following:

Kollossus base 210 (Must choose one option from below):
1. 10 Chaos Dwarf Annihilators................+120 points
2. 10 Chaos Dwarf Warriors with Shields.....+90 points
3. 10 Chaos Dwarf Warriors with Great Weapons....+100 points
4. 10 Chaos Dwarf Warriors with Chaos Armour and Shields....+120 points

I think this would make it a more versatile unit especially since if a commander of an army were using a tool such as this at his disposable he more then likely would fill it with some hard hitting troops to get them in combat or in case of besieging a castle you would be wasting this siege tower with none combat troops that once got to the towers would just fail. Strategically it just doesn't make sense i would hope that the Chaos Dwarf commanders would have more sense then housing just some guns in a siege tower. Also it almost seems a waste to have annihilators placed in the tower when they will no longer be considered in ranks so would only have strength 3 shot when if they were ranked up outside of the tower would be firing at strength 4. Since in order to go up a level of strength they must be able to receive a rank bonus.

Just my 2 cents when about the unit.
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Re: V4 Kollossus comments here!

Postby Hashuts Scion » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:21 am

The armor save is the way to go.

Specify the base size and whether or not templates can completely cover it. I've seen some of the home built kollusus and some are rather large, while my poor juggernaut can be hit by a 3" template. My Lizzie enemies always point to the tail and say, it doesn't completely cover, so it gets the 4+ roll to determine if it is hit at all.

I like the idea of changing the unit within the kollusus. The price of the unit isn't bad when you consider that you get a unit as well.

Do the rules of Deamonic Engines apply to it (specifically the armor save of 5+). Adding the armor save of 3+ would mean most/all of those rules are rewritten in the Tower's description.
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