Dark Elves v. Kevin Coleman's CD's

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Dark Elves v. Kevin Coleman's CD's

Postby elrodogg » Fri May 22, 2009 11:00 am

Kevin's List
High Priest w/ chalice,
Demonsmith with parasite blade
Demonsmith with demonshrieker
Bull Centaur BSB
2 Units fast cav
26 rabble
20 gobbos w/ bows
25 gobbos w/ hw/shield
25 cd's w/ eruption gun w/ bound bannner
10 blunderbuss
10 blunderbuss
5 bull centaurs
earthshaker
death rocket
2 demoneaters
2 bolt throwers (forgot to use)

My List:
Level 4 w/ pearl, 2x scrolls, dagger
Level 2 w/ tome, lifetaker
20 spears
20 spears
10 rxb's
10 rxb's
5 d riders w/ rxb's
5 d riders w/ rxb's
5 d riders
5 d riders
5 harpies
5 harpies
10 shades
2 chariots
6 CoK's
RBT

Kevin slaughtered me! Killed the level 4, 2 one unit so spearmen, one unit of harpies, one unit of rxb's, all the fast cav, the knights, a chariot and most of the shades.

While I was able to get around to his flank an destroy the warmachines, the fast cav, the blunderbusses, reduced the bull centaurs down to half strength with shooting that was about the cumulative effect of my army.

The game changing moment was when I failed a stupidity check with the knights which allowed him to charge in with both demoneaters, overunning into my level 4's unit. Knights really should have been on the other flank! The ensuing turn saw my 2 Cold One chariots double charged his big block of chaos dwarfs and rolled a measly 5 impact hits, killing only 2 cd's.

commentary:
Magic - the magic phase is totally brutal, I honestly don't see how anyone can think otherwise. spells are incredibly effective and have a wide variety of uses. kevin happened to roll only a single 1 all game and he destroyed me. I packed 5 dd with 2 scrolls for a moderate magic defense and it wasn't nearly enough. I sincerely believe there should be only 2 extra bound items (one enchanted item and one standard), the base bound level should be a 6 and not a 7, and everything should exhaust on a 1. Alternatively, change the magic to be a leadership check to cast. Another penalty to magic could be to lose a pip of movement to represent stone transformation. Doomroar should be limited to one enemy unit within 12" and eruption needs to be restricted to LOS. The demonsmith weapons should all be cast a base bound 4 or 5, but they should be universal in casting value. there are also too many, drop them to 2 or 3 so it's less new rules for someone to memorize.

Demoneaters - horrendously good. These critters are absolutely disgusting in all regards. d6+2/d3+2 is totally nasty and means nothing without a 2+ armor save even ever wants to go near these things. Drop the move to 6" for less of a threat zone and now 3d6 pursuit, and jack the cost waaay up to like 140-150.

Bull centaurs - while they didn't "do" all that much in our game, their threat was incredible. while they used to be limited to rare selections, the fact that they can now be taken as special and or a core choice means their use is vastly increased. Drop their leadership to 8 to make them slightly less reliable than they are now.

Warmachines - the earthshaker is just fine as is. I don't like the crew getting heavy armor, only because nobody else in the game gets a 5+ save on their warmachine crew. The movement penalty as it used to be was brutal, and now it's much much reduced. The death rocket is incredible. I love the mechanic, but we should try playing it with a small template but upping it to a strength 4/8 instead of 3 armor piercing. Eruption/swivel gun is fine as is, it gives a great mechanic to protect the backfield from flyers / warmachine hunters.

Overall impression is that it's a strong list. But it's always easier to town down something nasty then vice versa.
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Re: Dark Elves v. Kevin Coleman's CD's

Postby allanmcnab » Fri May 22, 2009 12:27 pm

If he only rolled one 1 all game thats pretty lucky assuming he was trying to get off four per turn. Of course that's one of the problems with a one in 6 odds over the course of a game. the outliers are not that far out, and either extreme will really hose one player of the other.
"I like Weakland because he cries when I fuck him" Pete, at the conflict.
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Re: Dark Elves v. Kevin Coleman's CD's

Postby elrodogg » Fri May 22, 2009 12:52 pm

I am not sure the problem is the 1 in 6 of it not going off, I think the bigger issue is what the spells are being cast at.

Assume for a minute that during those crucial turns 3,4 and 5 the chaos dwarf player doesn't roll a 1, then the opposing army is looking at something like a 7, 7, 5, 5, 5, 5 or something along those lines. It's just too much. If those were a 6, 6, 4, 4, 3, 3 where more than half of those can be thwarted by a decent roll on a single dice roll then it's a different story.

Not to mention that I feel the effects of those spells are really really good. You can't "afford" to let them go through. Particularly eruption, doomroar and the 2d6 s4 hits.

In all honesty, taking a demonsmith weapon's should be streamlined. Demonsmiths should be 115 points or so, and they should simply allow the demonsmith to cast one spell from the lore of hashut bound level 4/5 and give some sort of h2h bonus for their two s4 attacks, say killing blow and no armor saves. Failure to roll a 2+ means they take a wound from the demon lashing out at them. Easy peasy done.
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Re: Dark Elves v. Kevin Coleman's CD's

Postby allanmcnab » Fri May 22, 2009 4:09 pm

I think that the issue here is as always the laws of diminishing returns. In order to get the 775555 that you speak of you must take the priest and three casters. Looking at this and saying the magic is overpowering is like looking at a 4 butcher army and saying the magic is ott. It's true that this build is a bad time, but one would hope that this army will get comped into submission. Like all armies (with the exception of the elves who can get away with a 4 and a 2 with appropriate items) this one suffers from the no medium magic syndrome If you don't take at least a priest, and 2 smiths, chances are you get nothing off, while making Magic sure to earn it's points back requires a priest and 3 smiths.

The Holy grail of this whole thing would be to find some way that 3 lvl2's or a 4 and a 2, or even 2 2's would evffectively be able to get a couple of spells off against DL of VC who will tend to have more magic. This is a systemwide problem though not just a CD one


That being said only rolling one 1 in 24 casts (assuming 4 bounds over 6 turns) is an very unlikely event, and If you are throwing priest and 4 bounds out there, you should be burning out 1 a turn, as well as the fact that you've spent 800 or so points on magic

I would prefer using regular magic, but don't judge this way on a one 1 in 24 rolls game
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Re: Dark Elves v. Kevin Coleman's CD's

Postby elrodogg » Fri May 22, 2009 6:41 pm

Oh Allan, you've wonderfully missed my point entirely! :boom:
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