v.3 Hobgoblins vs Tomb King (2000)

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Re: v.3 Hobgoblins vs Tomb King (2000)

Postby Hashuts Scion » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:54 pm

Renufus wrote:What if we come up with some kind of compromise and keep the cost the same but give them Worthless Maggots? That way they're not as good as Rabble at being a cheap 20-man roadblock but a unit of 25 with shields and FC would be a worthwhile unit to take.


Too many rules are being thrown by me (teaching summer school, so am pretty busy right now), so please clarify the Worthless Maggots rule.

On another note, am I missing something? Treacherous Gits says if an army constains one unit of hobgoblins, then units of Rabble will not test for Goblinoid Animosity. That means I will always take one unit of hobs, if for no other reason than to prevent animosty. :)
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Re: v.3 Hobgoblins vs Tomb King (2000)

Postby KevinC » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:06 pm

Well, I agree with Renefus 100%. Right now, Hobgoblins are overpriced, Bows are also overpriced, and simply saying "it's not all about competitiveness" is a total cop-out answer.


----------Larry, that is not a quote I said.

Rabble can not longer get a standard or musician, btw.

I understand your points, I do agree that +2 for bows to probably too much and my intent is to change it to +1 point for bows.
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Re: v.3 Hobgoblins vs Tomb King (2000)

Postby Renufus » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:14 pm

Hashuts Scion wrote:Too many rules are being thrown by me (teaching summer school, so am pretty busy right now), so please clarify the Worthless Maggots rule.


Rabble used to have this rule before they lost their options for command models. In short, their standards wouldn't give up the extra 100VP when captured. If a small points break for Hobgoblins is out of the question I would be happy if they got this rule instead, although it doesn't really help them in skirmish or siege games or any kind of scenario that doesn't use VP (which are admittedly quite rare).

On another note, am I missing something? Treacherous Gits says if an army constains one unit of hobgoblins, then units of Rabble will not test for Goblinoid Animosity. That means I will always take one unit of hobs, if for no other reason than to prevent animosty. :)


Bolt Throwers and Wolf Riders, which will be in almost every army in appreciable numbers, also have Treacherous Gits so it doesn't really lend any more weight towards taking a unit of footsloggers currently.
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Re: v.3 Hobgoblins vs Tomb King (2000)

Postby Border Reiver » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:54 pm

Alright so the intent is to reduce the cost of the bows, but what about the unit size for the archers? Separate entry - hobgoblin archers - min unit size 10, just LA, bow and hand weapon - 5pts each. Totally viable, and not out of line when compared to Annihilators, or to archer units from other armies.
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Re: v.3 Hobgoblins vs Tomb King (2000)

Postby KevinC » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:07 pm

Border Reiver start playtesting them that way!
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Re: v.3 Hobgoblins vs Tomb King (2000)

Postby WickerNipple » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:59 pm

To play devil's advocate here - who wouldn't pay 200 pts for 4x10 Hobs w/ Bows if they had the models? I certainly would every time!
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Re: v.3 Hobgoblins vs Tomb King (2000)

Postby Renufus » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:14 am

WickerNipple wrote:To play devil's advocate here - who wouldn't pay 200 pts for 4x10 Hobs w/ Bows if they had the models? I certainly would every time!


If you have the models, give it a try. I think you'll find that it's not really as good as it sounds, though. I've tried the mass archer thing in Ravening Hordes and found that they take up an awful lot of space and actually start to get in the way past the 20-24 model critical mass point.
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Re: v.3 Hobgoblins vs Tomb King (2000)

Postby WickerNipple » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:29 am

Stick em to the sides and ignore em, your opponent will too. It's not indifferent to the flat 3-4 units of archers every bret army should take, minimum.

Problem comes in that CD are a force that can take a wee bit of everything. Other than skirmishers they can take a unit of every kind. A bit of everything plus a solid gunline core is very strong.

It's really a question of what you want a CD force to look like. If they have the option for cheap gunline spam then people will take it. 4x10 archers for 200 points is way better than anyone else gets - it's a big part of the same problems the list has now.
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Re: v.3 Hobgoblins vs Tomb King (2000)

Postby KevinC » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:00 pm

Andy well said!
Common Goblins iz da best!!

Check out my Gobbos at:http://z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?showtopic=28856

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Re: v.3 Hobgoblins vs Tomb King (2000)

Postby Renufus » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:52 pm

O&G can do the exact same thing (actually they can do it better because Arrer Boyz are a heck of a lot better than Hobgoblins) and it doesn't seem to be a problem there. Seriously, give it a try and I think you'll find it's really not as abusive as you're making it sound.

I own 50 of the old metal Hobgoblin Archers and have used them all in one 2k point army before. It's really not all that and a bag of potato chips. It's a bunch of T3 unarmored models with animosity and bows who can't really cover each others' lanes of fire or support the rest of the army very well and take up almost the entire width of the deployment zone if you want all of them to shoot (and if they can all shoot, they're definitely not going to be able to concentrate their fire in any appreciable numbers). They're not very effective at shooting and are even worse in combat. I implore you to try it before you knock it.
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