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Re: 2250 v3 CD vs. O&G

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:30 pm
by mattbird
Hashuts Scion wrote: If the magic went poof, would the Hashut list also go? That would be sad.

Bob


I think we would keep it. One of it's benefits is that there is only 1 direct damage spell, so when combined with a gunline army, the added magic does not get too obnoxious.

Re: 2250 v3 CD vs. O&G

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:41 pm
by Larro
I don't get the obsession with the Lore of Hashut. It's decidely mediocre. Why do you cram this crap down our throats? Is it so hard to do a dice phase, or are the Lores of Magic in the BRB suddenly too OTT for CDs to wield?

- Larry

Re: 2250 v3 CD vs. O&G

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:48 pm
by mattbird
so, 1 in favor of keeping it, 1 against? :lol:

If we keep the Hashut lore, that's not to say High Priests would not have access to Metal and Fire as well...

Re: 2250 v3 CD vs. O&G

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:57 pm
by Border Reiver
No the Lores of Magic that the CDs are allowed to use (Fire, Metal, Shadow and Death) aren't OTT. A reversion to the conventional dice phase is certainly possible and would obviously be easier for people to wrap their heads around.

On the other hand people find the 12" kill zone for blunderbusses OTT and difficult to accept, so in the end some people will obviously be confused at the East Coast GTs... :roll:

The idea of having all the CD war machines now have the potential to act like a rampaging hell cannon is actually more than a slight rule change at this stage. The previous fluff for CDs hasn't hinted that all their engines of war are daemonic, and I don't think that such a change would be justified for them. The Death Rocket for instance has always been a simple rocket launcher, and the Earthshaker simply a mortar with a really big explosive charge.

Re: 2250 v3 CD vs. O&G

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:04 pm
by mattbird
Border Reiver wrote:On the other hand people find the 12" kill zone for blunderbusses OTT and difficult to accept, so in the end some people will obviously be confused at the East Coast GTs... :roll:

The idea of having all the CD war machines now have the potential to act like a rampaging hell cannon is actually more than a slight rule change at this stage. The previous fluff for CDs hasn't hinted that all their engines of war are daemonic, and I don't think that such a change would be justified for them. The Death Rocket for instance has always been a simple rocket launcher, and the Earthshaker simply a mortar with a really big explosive charge.


:lol:

Nobody found the 12" kill zone OTT or difficult to understand (we're not THAT dense... except maybe McNab) , just time consuming, both in the exact adjustments players would make to thier own blunderbuss units, and the actual firing.

The fluff behind CD war machines being daemon-based is in the current fluff through other books, but yeah, not the 4th ed White Dwarf Presents fluff.

But yes, it is not a slight rules change. Which is why we're not rushing to release V4 until we're sure about it.

Re: 2250 v3 CD vs. O&G

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:14 pm
by KevinC
A couple things:

Re: too many rules. As Ronen and Allen have stated, there are not too many rules. Though, that being said - time and time again, this is NOT a final list. The only why sometimes to test and try other things is to throw them in with other things that need to be tested. There is only so much time.

Because this is a fan list and expected to be used in GTs both the daemon engines and bound magic will most likely not be together. One reason the project has taken so many turns is simply because of the direction of the project seems to have changed many times, from being just an 'update list' to a 'new list' and back and forth again.

If magic is dropped the Lore of Hashut will too. There is no point in saying bound magic is too complicated, only to switch back to normal magic with a new lore. If anything bound magic is easier to understand and explain than normal magic.

Daemon Engines really capture the fluff of the what Chaos Dwarfs do.

One note to keep in mind before the new version 5 comes out is that by default Chaos Dwarfs have a lot of stuff compared to normal dwarfs (magic, slaves, fast cav, bull centaurs, monsters, etc). So on a few issues, CD WILL NOT be getting their cake and eating it. Magic will not be as powerful as other armies. Chaos Dwarfs are not getting chariots, though there will be a weird chariot-like contraption. An army that gets everything is too good by default.

Kevin out

Re: 2250 v3 CD vs. O&G

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:29 pm
by mattbird
There you go!

Thanks for chiming in.

Now get back to drinking and schnitzel-eating!

Re: 2250 v3 CD vs. O&G

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:45 pm
by Larro
KevinC wrote:One note to keep in mind before the new version 5 comes out is that by default Chaos Dwarfs have a lot of stuff compared to normal dwarfs (magic, slaves, fast cav, bull centaurs, monsters, etc). So on a few issues, CD WILL NOT be getting their cake and eating it. Magic will not be as powerful as other armies.


But if you dump the Lore of Hashut and return to the few Lores from the BRB, doesn't this accomplish "magic not as powerful as other armies"? Or is a magic phase consisting of basic Lores of Magic and dependent on dice and casters in the usual manner somehow ultra-powerful?

- Larry

Re: 2250 v3 CD vs. O&G

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:09 pm
by allanmcnab
mattbird wrote:
Nobody found the 12" kill zone OTT or difficult to understand (we're not THAT dense... except maybe McNab) , just time consuming, both in the exact adjustments players would make to thier own blunderbuss units, and the actual firing.


Really birdoff, I am not dense, I just suck at all aspects of warhammer.

Never once did I have people complain about the mechanics of the killzone. Either in the amount of time it took, or that it was overpowered. (except wilson, but he said it while at the same time raping me with a stardragon. :roll: )

I realize that I am in the minority of the players here having given up any hope of winning at any sort of tournament long ago, Just give me some bells and whistles. I don't even care if they are effective :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:

Re: 2250 v3 CD vs. O&G

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:37 pm
by mattbird
allanmcnab wrote:
Never once did I have people complain about the mechanics of the killzone. Either in the amount of time it took, or that it was overpowered.


that's because they were all so juiced to have pulled such an easy win as you, they were happy to let you take as long as you wanted to lose. :lol: