v4 CD vs High Elves [1650pts]

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v4 CD vs High Elves [1650pts]

Postby Voyager_3 » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:12 am

Yesterday I had a 1650pts battle aginst High Elves. My buddy played for the first time against the new CD list (but he had played against RH list before).


My army was as follows:


Slavemaster
(Hailfire Gun, Helm of Azgorh)

Great Horn Bull Centaur
(Armour of Stone)

Hobgoblin Overseer
(wolf; Blades of Backstabbing, Armour of Devious Fate)

2 units of 10 Warriors
(great axe, chaos armour, shield, Erruption Gun)

17 Annihilators
(full command)

6 Hobgoblin Wolfriders
(spears, full command)

5 Bull Centaurs
(great axe, chaos armour, shield, full command, The Shadow Standard of Hashut)

Deamoneater

2x Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower

3 Inferno Golems
(Conflagration Cannon)



High Elves army:

lvl2 mage (+1 spell item)
mounted BSB (+1 armour save with reroll)
14 Phoenix Guard (+d3 power dice banner)
2x 10 Archers
2x 5 Dragon Princes
2x Lion Chariot
2x RBT



I've won the battle by ~160pts difference, so it was a draw.
I started with a huge bad luck in first turn. I was going first. I rushed on my right flank with Daemoneater and BC with BC Hero and on my left flank with Golems and Wolfriders with Hobgobo Boss. I forgot about -1 'to hit' banner on BCs. Opponent's shooting and magic phase ended up in panicing and running off the table both - BCs and Wolfriders with both joined characters. Daemoneater was wounded once, Golems untouched. It looked pretty bad.
My opponent played totally defensively, which was really irritating. So all of my Chaos Dwarfs were just standing away from 30" bow range. I only shoot with BTs and one Erruption Gun (second was way out of range). Luckily I've won (or tied ;-) ) the game with two units only: Daemoneater and Golems.
I softened with shooting a Lion Chariot on my right flank. The chariot charged Daemoneater.
Side note: Who strikes first when both units deal impact hits? We went that the charger.
Anyway, Lion Chariot fluffed impact hits and Daemoneater finished it with it's own impacts. :fist: Then, in my turn, I charged with Daemoneater one unit of Dragon Princes in it's flank. After two CC phases I mowed them all, obviously not taking a wound. :fist: Then Phoenix Guard charged the Daemoneater. They eventually managed to destroy if after next three CC phases loosing 5-6 pointy eared bastards. If only I could target impact hits at characters or champions... :orc thumb:
Golems on left flank went more tricky. I used a building that was there. As Golems are infantry the can enter buildings.
Side note / Trick: Golems, Bull Centaurs and Daemonic Engines (Erruption Guns, Earthshakers etc.) are treated as infantry so they can enter buildings (and shoot from!).
So did mine. They entered in a 'conga line' formation and get out in the same one, so it gave them effectively ~10" boost. Eventually they ended up at enemy's very flank. I used Conflagration Cannon which burned 4 Archers and the show began. Archers paniced and run through other units causing more panic. A the end only one RBT and one Archer unit left not paniced (second Lion Chariot smashed into woods). It gave me few whiles on shooting. Golems was flank hit from remaining RBT
Side note: Golem with an upgrade weapon is not a champion, can he die if the unit is hit from flank or only regular golems are counted as hit even if the different one is first to be hit.
and lost the upgrade weapon guy. Golems charged the RBT and after that hid behind a hill for not being spell targeted and shoot by Archer leftovers.


It was quite interesting battle after all. As you can see I actually tested only Golems, Daemoneater and Erruption Gun for some.
Starting from the end.

Erruption Gun. I played that they can move (not march) and fire (with -1 penalty). It's not a big deal in game (M3 only), however Gun's movement is really advantageous during deployment - eg. you can put it in a woods and sneak in/out later. One of my Erruption Guns was quite quickly killed by Archers fire, but managed to kill 2 Dragon Princes before death (I rolled 10 on Artillery Dice :orcs:). None of them failed Ld test, but I'm sure some would do if I had more Daemonic Engines. If they are going to be like they are, they should be Ld10 at least. Animosity + Rage + Misfire really sucks and makes the army very unreliable.

Daemoneater. I think (and my buddy) it's fine as is - stats and points wise. Mine done so much cause I rolled pretty high on impacts, but it can be easily killed (especially from shooting) anyway.

Inferno Golems. Here also I think (and my buddy) that they are fine as they are. One thing I would add, mainly fluff wise, is immune to fire based attacks without point cost change.



And two notes apart from the battle:
1. I wanted to use blunderbusses '5th edition like' rules. Ie. 12" death box shot (each model hit on 4+, may shoot even if friendly units within box) or concentrated fire shot (normal rules for shooting + no range and movement panalties, only 1st rank shoots [even on a hill etc.], +1S for each fank behind up to S5). Those are the rules I'll use in friendly games no matter what this army list ends up eventually. :orcsslobber: Death box is a must. Period.
2. The actual magic system is wired. Lord level characters are normal wizards and hero level bound spellers. Thats Strange. I think Daemonsmith should be a CC character mainly with his spell casting as a minor effect. Whereas now his CC stats are worse than hobgob hero's and he is s***ty spellcaster. Just add hero level wizards, buff up for CC Daemonsmiths and nefr their spellcasting (totally; give them previous version uber-weapons but with no bound spells[?]). At least that's how I see it.


Any comment is welcome. :orcs:
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Re: v4 CD vs High Elves [1650pts]

Postby KevinC » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:52 pm

Great! Thanks!

Who strikes first when both units deal impact hits? We went that the charger.


-----------------If the Daemoneater did not charge, then it deals impact hits in I order.

Golem with an upgrade weapon is not a champion, can he die if the unit is hit from flank or only regular golems are counted as hit even if the different one is first to be hit.


----------------The controlling player removes models from play, so you choose. However, the Golem with the upgrade may still be picked out, for example a player could say, I putting 5 attacks on the Golem with the cannon, etc.
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Re: v4 CD vs High Elves [1650pts]

Postby Matt » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:01 am

Voyager_3 wrote:Side note / Trick: Golems, Bull Centaurs and Daemonic Engines (Erruption Guns, Earthshakers etc.) are treated as infantry so they can enter buildings (and shoot from!).


Aren't daemonic engines treated as Monster and Handlers? If so, they cannot enter buildings.

It seems very odd to have an earth shaker going into a building, and being able to fire out.

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Re: v4 CD vs High Elves [1650pts]

Postby Voyager_3 » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:20 am

KevinC wrote:-----------------If the Daemoneater did not charge, then it deals impact hits in I order.


Oh, yes! I completely omitted v4 Daemoneater entry. I thought it just deals impact hits as before. :orcs: But what's more, I've noticed that Daemoneater follows Daemonic Fury special rule. And that's really crap. I think with hitting in Initiative order and with Fury rule it's way overpriced. Actually, Daemonic Fury makes it unusable. I don't want it to charge out onto middle of the table just to be shot to pieces by some pansy archers (3 wounds and M7 means it will never get out from such situation). Well, maybe if you make it Core, but as a Special it's a waste.
So, my suggestions are:
1. Keep the stats/points but make it Core.
2. Keep it Special, but drop Daemonic Fur and allow allocate hits while Daemoneater doesn't charge.
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Re: v4 CD vs High Elves [1650pts]

Postby Voyager_3 » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:31 am

Matt wrote:Aren't daemonic engines treated as Monster and Handlers? If so, they cannot enter buildings.
It seems very odd to have an earth shaker going into a building, and being able to fire out.


Well, actually it's not clear in the rules for Daemonic Engines. They are not strictly considered warmachines or monsters (BTW, what about deployment and Victory Points?), which would prevent them entering buildings. Monster and Handlers rule has nothing to do with it. Eg. DE Warhydra can not enter building (the hydra is a monster and a Large Target), but Lizardmen Salamander packs can enter as they are infantry.
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