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V4 CD vs. Vampire Counts

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:17 am
by Ulfjarl
Hello,

this is my first post. Great project. Big respect from my side.

I warn you, I'm tired (6:15 AM in germany now and I had no sleep this night) and my english is not the best. But hope to help the project with my thoughts.

Made a testgame with a friend two weeks ago. We played a standard game at 2,000 points.

Played the following list:

High Priest
Level 4
Arcane Apparatus
Helm of Azgorh
Hexacon of Hashut (I had not much time to make the list, so I made the fault to take two Enchanted Items, but this is no big problem because I could have used a dispel scroll instead)
spells: Fireball, Fiery Blast, Conflagaration of Doom, Wall of Fire

Deamonsmith
Shield
Demon Bane (Wasn`t sure he could use Arcane Items. I think he shouldn`t. Didn't know that you could have only one bound spell, because mostly I don't use any. So it was a fault to give this item to him.)
spell: Fiery Blast
Deamon Weapon: +1 WS

He rides a Kollossus

21 Warriors
full command
Chaos Armour
Great Axes
Banner of Daemonic Tides

21 Warriors
full command
Chaos Armour
Shields
Eruption Gun

17 Annihilators
full command

Deamoneater

Death Rocket

Earthshaker Cannon




My opponent played Vampire Counts:

Vampire Lord
Level 3
Lord of the Dead
Dark Acolyte
Walking Death
Avatar of Death
Helm of Commandment
Spells: Invocation of Nehek, Gaze of Nagash, Curse of Years, Summo Undead Horde

Vampire
Dread Knight
Infinite Hatred
Spells: Invocation of Nehek, Raise Dead

20 Zombies
SB, M

30 Skeleton Warriors
full command
spears

30 Skeleton Warriors
full command
spears

10 Crypt Ghouls
Ghast

3 Bat Swarm Bases

9 Black Knights
full command
Barding
Banner of the Dead Legion

4 Fell Bats


Black Coach



I totally destroyed him. Myself only lost Eruption Gun, Death Rocket and Deamoneater and some poor Chaos Dwarfes.



Now our impressions:

Magic System:


I told my friend of the bound Spell System you tried and we both were in complete agreement that it was a great idea, because it was a perfect symbiosis of being a dwarf on the one side and use magic on the other side. Its non of both. Neither the anti-magic nor the normal magic. We think it should be this way.
Additionally they had their own spells in fifth edition and we thought they should have it now.

With the Bound Spell System my opponent would agree with the 4 DD, but not if using magic as normal. He said:

Re: V4 CD vs. Vampire Counts

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:15 am
by mattbird
Thanks for the batrep! feedback is all helpful.

Re: V4 CD vs. Vampire Counts

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:19 pm
by Renufus
In other words: Nerf nerf nerf

Re: V4 CD vs. Vampire Counts

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:20 pm
by Aves
Um, Its a very weak list you played against, increadibly weak.

I totaly dunno how he had a problem with Kolossus, having unit of 30 skeletons, even if he charges he has to fight against static combat resut of 5, use hw+shield, survive first turn, summon what u can in the following turn, then u fight against 10 S3 attacks, and u have helmet so WS 7 from lord, 5 hits, 2,5 wounds 1,25 save, so Kolossus rolls break test on -4. Where is the problem?

Re: V4 CD vs. Vampire Counts

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:32 am
by DarkbloodSkullpulper
My initial reaction on reading this was also a bit of disbelief that the Kolossus would do well against a horde of Skeletons. The Kolossus has been my second-biggest disappointment in the list - I think it has absolutely great modelling potential, but I could not take it in a competitive list because of the major liabilities against ranked units.

For the record, my biggest disappointment is that the bound magic system was scrapped, rather than fixed, because it added a whole lot of flavor to the list. I second the poster in his appreciation of the idea.

Re: V4 CD vs. Vampire Counts

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:19 am
by KevinC
For the record, my biggest disappointment is that the bound magic system was scrapped, rather than fixed, because it added a whole lot of flavor to the list. I second the poster in his appreciation of the idea.


-----------For the record I completely agree, however the main reason this was decided because it was a fan list and will be used in tournaments. As a result we don't want players having to explain too many new things.

Kevin out

Re: V4 CD vs. Vampire Counts

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:19 pm
by Larro
Aves wrote:Um, Its a very weak list you played against, increadibly weak.


Winner!

99% of this battle report is useless as a result.

- Larry

Re: V4 CD vs. Vampire Counts

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:13 pm
by mattbird
It is a weaker VC list, but it's a stretch to say that the report is useless. Not everyone plays tourney-hard armies out there, so seeing how Dwarfs of Chaos perform against a more casual list is totally valid, and worth taking feedback on.

Re: V4 CD vs. Vampire Counts

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:31 pm
by elrodogg
Not to mention that Ulfjarl played a much weaker DoC list himself. Weak on weak is highly useful.

Re: V4 CD vs. Vampire Counts

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:59 pm
by Larro
Deamonsmith
Shield
Demon Bane (Wasn`t sure he could use Arcane Items. I think he shouldn`t. Didn't know that you could have only one bound spell, because mostly I don't use any. So it was a fault to give this item to him.)


This is one of the worst ideas going on in this book to begin with. It hasn't changed since V1, and it's ludicrous. The list's ONLY access to Arcane Items is the High Priest, and that's totally lame. Let the CD's make a proper magic phase and give their Wizard-equivalents (in this case, Demonsmiths) access to Arcane Items. Otherwise, give us Level 2 Wizards and Demonsmiths as a separate entity, a la Empire Warrior Priests and Battle Wizards.

And as for that VC List, I mean seriously, the guy took ONE magic item on his Lord. One! And he only took 2 characters to begin with! I get the whole "not tournament hard" bit, but even you have to admit that list is incredibly sub-optimal Birdoff.

- Larry