Rantings about comp

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Re: Malifaux Tournament - Nov. 12th - 32 Players - 35SS

Postby Guy In Suit » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:54 pm

Rules are up. I decided to give a totally open format a go. Also, so minor but significant tweaks for balance's sake and to encourage diversity. Please share your thoughts.
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Re: Malifaux Tournament - Nov. 12th - 32 Players - 35SS

Postby Fool » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:47 pm

Should put a SS cap on the model pool, so people with massive amounts of models don't have more of an advantage (ie, as many masters as you like but choose your crew from 70ss worth of models)
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Re: Malifaux Tournament - Nov. 12th - 32 Players - 35SS

Postby Guy In Suit » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:48 pm

Fool wrote:Should put a SS cap on the model pool, so people with massive amounts of models don't have more of an advantage (ie, as many masters as you like but choose your crew from 70ss worth of models)


I think that after a certain point having more models actually makes one less effective - but will consider it.
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Re: Malifaux Tournament - Nov. 12th - 32 Players - 35SS

Postby nix » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:09 pm

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Sadly, after thinking I was in the clear during the week, I return home to see family commitments piled deeply on my calendar. Family birthday part has owned Nov 12th and I will be unable to make it up.

Funny enough, the birthday I checked on (my daughter) is not the one that ate up my calendar. That teaches me to ask specific questions......

I will still talk about this on the next Gamers Lounge recording (should be this weekend)....

Bill
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Re: Malifaux Tournament - Nov. 12th - 32 Players - 35SS

Postby Guy In Suit » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:32 pm

Sucks that you won't be able to make it up! Social lives are overrated IMO, but I digress...

Look forward to hearing your discussion. Please have a chat about the restrictions as well. The discussion going on at the Wyrd forum has been interesting... I'd also like to hear more about Chris' story scenarios he brought up.
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Re: Malifaux Tournament - Nov. 12th - 32 Players - 35SS

Postby nix » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:02 pm

Just read over the restrictions.. not sure you will like my opinions.

to be public on them... I understand a couple of them:

Neverborn - I get them... I do not agree they are needed but I understand them.
    Alp cost 4SS
    Stitched Together cost 6SS *****Very specifically, I think this is over the top for a change. You mentioned this change in relation to Slaughter and raising thier cost only makes them worse in the slaughter situation. Of all the Stitched changes I have heard, this is (imho) the worst. I would prefer to see a change around giving points in slaughter, or DnD ending thier activation*****
    Lelu - Rare 1
    Lilitu - Rare 1
Outcasts
    Jack Daw does not grant either player additional victory points ** I get it, although with an 8 point cap I do not see the need**
    Rats may not make (1) Interact actions **I get it and heard stories about rats interacting to the overwhelming benefit of the Hamelin crew**
Arcanists
    Colette DuBois starting SS Cache reduced to 1 **I do not get this one. This seems to be punitive and when all is said and done, I do not see it making much difference. Why reduce her SS cache?

Ressurectionists
    Kirai Ankoku starting SS Cache reduced to 2 **This also seems punitive to me. I am unsure what this solves, are you seeing Kirai players benefiting too much from a large SS cache or, more importantly, do you feel their crews are too cheap?

Guild
    Perdita Ortega starting SS Cache reduced to 1 **So confused by this one. Is the 1 SS difference huge? This seems unnecessarily punitive without having any actual effect. Overall, the Ortega's are one of the most expensive crews to take, so Perdita plays well with a lower pool already. What is to gain by reducing this by another stone?
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Re: Malifaux Tournament - Nov. 12th - 32 Players - 35SS

Postby Guy In Suit » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:14 pm

Just cuz you aren't coming doesn't mean I will totally ignore your opinions ;)

RE: Stitched - I agree with you - I just didn't want to have to directly contradict distinct Rules Marshall rulings... but at this point trying to dance around the obvious is getting tiresome.

The SS cache reductions are simply a 'speed' tax - as these Masters mobility give them a distinct advantage when the Scenario is unknown. Its not that drastic of a change - not sure whether to look at something more specific - like having Jack Daw cost +3SS in a Kirai crew or something or just dropping it all together?
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Re: Malifaux Tournament - Nov. 12th - 32 Players - 35SS

Postby nix » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:31 pm

I think I see your reasoning behind the "Speed Tax", but if I understand your reasoning it should be similarly applied to all of the following as well:

    Hoffman
    Lucius (potential 15 inches of personal movement and 4 inch sling shot)
    any master who takes lucius (potential 19 inch movement prior to activating)
    Viktoria (I do not even remember her total turn 1 movement, I think its something like a potential 22 inches)
    any master who takes the Student of Conflict (adds fast to all masters)
    Zoraida or Seamus/McMourning (obey for Zoraida, fast for Seamus and McMourning)
    Pandora (a potential 12 inch movement from Dementia plus whatever is included once she starts inciting/pacifying

Seamus is fast, similar to Perdita, and Zoraida has obey (and can cast it more). With that said, if its speed of your crew then Zoraida should be hit, if its Perdita being fast them Seamus should be hit.

All the rest can get 3/4 across the table on turn 1 with no issue. They are all very fast masters, easily the equal or surpass the ones you listed. If the measure becomes the middle of the table, every master in the game can get to the middle of the table on first turn now.

Speed in Malifaux is a tricky thing, and the slowest masters have their own tricks that help them out. As slowest masters, I look to Ramos, Levi, and in many cases So'mer.


Just some thoughts to consider... but I would probably ignore me.... I will not be able to make it up ( :cry: ) and I am an unabashed Wyrd Fanboi, so I think the rules are ok the way they are. I even get to let loose one of those inflammatory comments like "Neverborn are not overpowered, people just need to play better" on the next M&SU bar.

I would be happy to try and help constructively add to the discussion, just let me know how I can do so. I have the challenge of thinking the rules are really well balanced as they are, so its tough for me to apply a comp system when I do not think its needed. My personal list of changes:
  • Double-Take trigger should automatically stop when the target is in base to base with the caster
  • Stitched should count for Slaughter points when Does not Die triggers
  • Stitched should end the current activation when Does not Die triggers

To try and push diversity into the local scene, I would recommend the following:
  • +1 TP for each different master used in a game
  • +1 VP if no models are duplicated in your crew
Then combine those with the open-faction Gaining Grounds rules you are already running.
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Re: Malifaux Tournament - Nov. 12th - 32 Players - 35SS

Postby cornelious1424 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:48 am

I posted this on the Wyrd boards as well, but that discussion is getting a little out of hand. As we are two clubs that are respectively close to each other (NYC and our LI location is only an hour away) I think it would be in our best interests to come up with something together. Here is my take on this:

"It would require all of us as players to come up with a system that rates masters and puts a number on their head. "Top Tier" masters would get a lower number, or perhaps even 0 and masters that are considered weak, a higher number. Players would get comp points added to the VP, TP, or DIFF depending on the format, for taking certain masters during each game of the tournament. So, if I choose to take the Dreamer who is say a Comp 1 in all 3 games, I may only be getting +3 (1 for each game) comp points added to my total VP, TP, or DIFF depending on the format. While the guy who only has Som'er, who say is a Comp 3, would be getting +9 comp points (3 for each game) added to his VP, TP, or DIFF depending on the format. It might force players to choose different masters they may not ordinarily take, because they may need those extra points to win the tournament. People would still be able to play what they want with out feeling like they are getting too screwed by severe changes based on a master/faction biased. This would work in open faction, single faction, single master tournaments or however the OP decided to run the event. It doesn't change rules or ss costs and I think would keep the integrity of the game (somewhat)."

I do agree with Nix that the game does not need this sort of thing, yet then again we don't really see masters like the Dreamer or Hamelin played at Brothers Grim. In my own opinion I feel that the Guild is broken, because we happen to have a bulk of people who play Guild.


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Re: Malifaux Tournament - Nov. 12th - 32 Players - 35SS

Postby Guy In Suit » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:24 am

nix wrote:To try and push diversity into the local scene, I would recommend the following:
  • +1 TP for each different master used in a game
  • +1 VP if no models are duplicated in your crew
Then combine those with the open-faction Gaining Grounds rules you are already running.


These are both pretty great. They could be written into the scenarios if they are custom. Use one for round one and then the other for round 3 - so you've won two games with your Master of choice - now try something else or potentially fall behind? I like it.
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