The missing matter of the universe: Dark Matter...

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Re: The missing matter of the universe: Dark Matter...

Postby VectorAWX3 » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:14 am

Energy is measured in joules.

Edit: not to be confused with what that extra-pierced Birdoff has hanging on his scrotum: jewels.
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Re: The missing matter of the universe: Dark Matter...

Postby Bauhaus » Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:03 am

Quote:

a) It's speed isn't a fixed c in all inertial reference frames.
b) It's speed isn't even constant as it would vary with frequency.
c) It's speed can approach, but never reach c.


And you're starting to get it. The speed of light c is for a massless photon traveling in a vacuum but a), b) and c) would be true if there is mass.

Equations would be reformulated when necessary to take into consideration the new physics. Einsteins theories take this into consideration. Remember when you used to leave friction out of your calculations for simplicity? The formulas are equally correct if you start assuming friction. Same for Relativity (and Newtonian Physics.)

The mass of the photon would need to be extremely small and variable.
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Re: The missing matter of the universe: Dark Matter...

Postby The Gunslinger » Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:06 am

I'm not sure, but what would be the consequences of light having a variable speed in regardless to E=mc^2?

As far as I see it, assuming the photon has mass, the variable speed should be proportionate to the infintessimal amount of mass the photon would hypothetically have. The change to E=mc^2 should be really tiny, right?

Basically, if light could be faster, again, by tiniest amount, wouldn't "E" just be a tiny bit greater? And vice versa, a slower photon, would result in "E" being just a tiny bit weaker?

I'm pretty sure I'd get the answer to this question if I read about Relativity, but again, since my list of books is bigger than I'd like it to be, it's going to be awhile til I get to it.

Lastly, any insight about my previous post regarding the different frequencies of the different colored photons, and would it be possible to change a red photon into another color by changing the frequency
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Re: The missing matter of the universe: Dark Matter...

Postby savaughn » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:34 am

>>Also, Sav, different colored photons have different frequencies, but whenever we talk about the frequency of light, you say that the frequency can't change because otherwise it would indicate mass. Do I understand this correctly?

>Lastly, any insight about my previous post regarding the different frequencies of the different colored photons, and would it be possible to change a red photon into another color by changing the frequency?


No, you kind of missed the point. I said if a photon has mass, then it's frequency will indicate it's velocity (unless we discover that Planck's constant isn't). Different colored photons have different frequencies - yes. Frequency = color. But frequency also = energy (E=fh) so if the amount of energy carried by the photon changes the frequency changes as well. Let's say that a red photon hits an atom and the atom spits the photon back out only with a very slightly higher level of energy. You would now have a blue photon and a slightly cooler atom. It's also probably not the same photon, but still. Basically, to change the frequency of a photon, it has to exchange energy with something and that's usually an all or nothing kind of deal.

>>And you're starting to get it.

Eh, I've known pretty well what the impact of a massful photon would be for years. I'm quite aware of what this does both in terms of completely destroying Einstein and breaking a lot of quantum mechanics as well (the impact to quantum electrodynamics is interesting). I just don't agree with you on the point. At the quantum level, mass is really just a measure of the gravitic field generated by that particular energy pattern and I see no requirement in that space that dictates you can't have energy without gravity (which is what the photon is). Now, if you are desperately trying to prove unified field theory, this is not going to make you happy but as I said at the start of this whole thing I don't think that's going to end up working out as nicely as we would like.
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Re: The missing matter of the universe: Dark Matter...

Postby The Gunslinger » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:17 am

I found a basic, informative site that outlines a few things I was wondering about. Basically, 1 photon is 1 quantum (unit) of light, or of a ray in the electromagnetic field. So 1 gamma ray has 1 photon, visible light has several colors of photons, radio waves are made up of photons, etc. Each one has it's own frequency and energy. I always understood photons as referring to visible light, but knowing that it was still part of the electromagnetic spectrum, which hinted to me that all those rays are made of the same stuff.

Still, no one has addressed how black holes are able to pull all types of photons toward it, even though photons have no mass. Sav said "At the quantum level, mass is really just a measure of the gravitic field generated by that particular energy pattern", so I understand that if gravity & mass relate to each other, and so do black holes & photons, then doesn't that indicate photons have mass?

I caught in that FoxNews Science article that I posted here, that a few gamma and/or X rays are able to escape black holes, but I think this is probably around the area of the event horizon. Since gamma & X rays are the most energetic of photons, they have the highest chance of escaping, and gamma rays have the closest event horizon to a black hole of any thing in the Universe.

Thoughts from the brain pool? Happy Thanksgiving? 0]

Oh yeah... Here's that site... (it's a NASA site)...imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l1/emspectrum.html
Quote:
Still, no one has addressed how black holes are able to pull all types of photons toward it, even though photons have no mass. Sav said "At the quantum level, mass is really just a measure of the gravitic field generated by that particular energy pattern", so I understand that if gravity & mass relate to each other, and so do black holes & photons, then doesn't that indicate photons have mass?

Er.

This is the part of physics that is still waiting for a good unified theory.

Do that, and you instantly get a Nobel. So, in real time, you'd get one within a decade or so after publication, instead of the usual (much longer) wait
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Re: The missing matter of the universe: Dark Matter...

Postby The Gunslinger » Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:04 am

Thanks! :D I'll get right on it. 8o
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