Educational Logic

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Educational Logic

Postby Flavius Infernus » Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:49 am

New York times story:
www.nytimes.com/2006/10/1...ref=slogin

Summary:
Apparently, if you spend more money on education in a particular district, 86% of the students perform at grade level on math tests. If you spend not enough money on education in another district, only about 30% of the students can do grade-level math.

So what's the solution to the disparity?
According to Richard Mills, the solution is to go to the poor districts and "demand immediate change in instructional practices, in curriculum, in professional development.

Translation: If the school district with no money doesn't do as well as the school district with lots of money, the solution is to yell at the poor school district's teachers (but not change spending, except maybe to pay some consultants to yell at teachers for you).

This is why I don't do public school.
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Re: Educational Logic

Postby warmongerclub » Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:57 am

I don't think yelling at the teachers from poor school districts is not enough. I think to punish schools that don't perform well, you should cut their budgets. That'll teach em!
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Re: Educational Logic

Postby -Papa Gino » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:03 am

I myself was always a fan of public floggings...
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Re: Educational Logic

Postby elrodogg » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:08 am

Screw that! The teachers are coddling the students too much. Ship the students to Siberia so they can learn what it's really like to be poor and destitute. When they get back they'll be das uber appreciative.
Fast, like kittens with jetpacks.
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Re: Educational Logic

Postby WickerNipple » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:11 am

Pikes.
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Re: Educational Logic

Postby mauleed » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:24 am

Well I think this confuses correllation with causation.

It's just as likely that the poorly funded districts are just full of idiot kids. It's completely logical that the kids in wealthier areas are simply smarter, and hence test better.

I'm sure dumping money into the poor districts will cause a rise in test scores, but it'll be relatively insignificant, and likely not worth the investment.

But what do I care. My kids go to one of the best funded/testing school districts in NJ! :
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Re: Educational Logic

Postby -The Fabulous Orcboy » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:31 am

I'm always impressed with Ed does satire.

Because it's almost indistinguishable from Ed when he's serious, see ;)
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Re: Educational Logic

Postby mauleed » Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:02 am

Ken, do you really think that the kids from the poor school and the kids from the rich school have exactly the same testing potential?

Edit: or is it my guess that it's a waste of money that you find so comedic?
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Re: Educational Logic

Postby Flavius Infernus » Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:25 am

Another correllation I know about: poor school districts also generally have the least-experienced and least-qualified teachers.

Rich districts offer higher pay and better working conditions, so they get the pick of the crop right off the bat. Poor districts get the leftovers, the desperate newbies, and often have to take untrained or uncertified teachers just to get somebody in front of a class.

...and then, as soon as one of those teachers gets certified or gets some training, they run off to the rich districts as quickly as they can. I mean, who wouldn't want to work at the place where they don't yell at you because your students don't do as well as the rich districts?

It's hard to say whether throwing money at the problem would help because nobody has ever tried throwing money at education to find out.

We know that higher salaries and better facilities causes better teachers and administrators. We know that smaller classes cause students to do better in all subjects and at all levels (and makes teachers happier). But I don't know of a case where anybody has satisfactorily shown that yelling at teachers makes students do better.
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Re: Educational Logic

Postby -Papa Gino » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:57 am

Quote:
Ship the students to Siberia so they can learn what it's really like to be poor and destitute.


Hey hey hey! We weren't "poor and destitute", we were Communists!!! Big difference there!!!!!

On topic - to me, this is one of those no-brainer issues that, largely due to ideological and/or political reasons, get turned into debates and nonsensical prescriptions. There are many.
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