New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby VectorAWX3 » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:36 pm

That's PRECISELY why I'm against marriage benefits. :p
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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby -The Fabulous Orcboy » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:14 pm

*shrug*

I'm not disagreeing with you, Nidal. It's just that, in this particular case, your "take rights away from EVERYONE" approach is probably going to be a bit less popular than the alternative "give rights TO everyone" approach.

Me, I'm ambivalent. So long as it's applied across the board to everyone (full rights, or no rights), I'm probably going to be okay with it
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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby Bauhaus » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:56 pm

I know that when I became "officially" married that there would be a number of benefits and a few penalties that I (and my spouse) would receive.

Personally, I think most of them are discounts offered so that well continue to stay married and not burden society with our problems (if we were to break up or have other difficulties.) I feel entitled to my rewards for my faithfulness. So dont screw with them!

Id happily pass along those rights to every other couple who commits to staying together. Its good for the country.
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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby -Thrax » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:05 am

Canada welcomes all gay people who want to get married and move here. Come on over: get hitched, we'll smoke a joint, play a game of hockey, and drink better beer and whiskey than you'll find anywhere west of Ireland. :hat

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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby mauleed » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:14 am

Quote:
So wait, Nidal and Ed are against marraige benefits, yet they are both repeat offenders? I'm confused.


Ultimately, I care about this about as much as I care about Iraq or the price of coffee beans on mars.

But I think one can make a pretty strong case that marraige (and the possible failure of it) has more risk than reward, and more penalties than benefits, overall, and is hence possibly a burden on society. Or at least in recent history it's done more harm than good to our society.

But again I agree with Ken: whatever rights are available to any should be available to all. I support gay marraige simply because it's fair.

I like agreeing with Ken. I think it gets him more worked up than when I disagree. Perhaps for that reason alone I shall revise my supposed stances on all things off topic.
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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby -The Fabulous Orcboy » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:18 am

Ed, you clueless shallow wanker.
Quote:
I like agreeing with Ken. I think it gets him more worked up than when I disagree. Perhaps for that reason alone I shall revise my supposed stances on all things off topic.
As ever, I'm thrilled to discover that you have absolutely no meaningful opinions about anything whatsoever.

It is truly an awe-inspiring structural/political ideal that allows even a total piece of human waste like Ed to have an equal voice in the political process.

Fortunately, Ed has chosen never to participate in the process, for which the entirety of humanity (or at least America) is no doubt grateful
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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby -Thrax » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:20 am

So...what you guys are saying is that you DON'T want me to save any of the weed for you? :eek

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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby mauleed » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:26 am

Quote:
It is truly an awe-inspiring structural/political ideal that allows even a total piece of human waste like Ed to have an equal voice in the political process.


Personally, I find it a bit underwhelming that with my lack of participation I still effectively have the exact same impact on same said political process that you do: none.
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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby -hokiegamer » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:34 am

Wow.

That's a lot of strong opinions about marriage. And Ed. But it would be cool to go to Canada. Didn't know they had good whisky too.

I guess I've always felt everyone was looking at it backwards, as far as the state is concerned, all the married people have civil unions. So what does it matter if someone wants to enter into a civil union with a consenting adult of the same sex or a house plant. The benefits and responsibilities imposed by the state should be equally applicable if the parties involved are legally allowed to enter into that agreement.

The language of marriage and it's implied context come from history and religion. By convenience and tradition they have come to form a "bright shining line" that makes certain legal decisions clearer. Changing the status of marriage and who is allowed to enter into a marriage agreement starts mucking around with the "bright shining" part of the line.

My wife and I are catholic. The catholic definition of marriage, and the responsibilities involved, are quite a bit different from the state marriage laws we were married under. So much so that it's laughable to think that people use the word marriage describe both our civil and personal obligations under the two recognized licenses we hold. But if something changes in the greater scheme of US law, it doesn't affect the marriage obligations I have under the catholic church which we promised to hold ourselves to years ago. All it effects are the benefits we receive according to the state, our insurance company, etc.

The hate mongers who would really like this to be another example of judicial activism (instead of just judging) probably wanted a much stronger statement to fire up the base and get people angry before an election. The judges decision to kick it back to the state legislature defuses that and will hopefully make the people in NJ think about what they really want to have happen in society. But then I tend to be an optimist, and marriage is one of the most optimistic things you can do. I hope we come as a society to a point where two people can get married if they choose to, and all the polygamist/NAMBLA freaks go to Canada. :b

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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby -The Fabulous Orcboy » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:35 am

Ed writes:
Quote:
Personally, I find it a bit underwhelming that with my lack of participation I still effectively have the exact same impact on same said political process that you do: none.
:D

Good, you keep on believing that self-fulfilling prophecy of yours, you damn fool.

Ignorance and Apathy will ensure that you never fight against any of the causes I support, and for that I'm quite happy to be both partisan and thankful
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