New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby mauleed » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:40 am

Quote:
But then I tend to be an optimist, and marriage is one of the most optimistic things you can do.


No, it's one of the more pessimistic things you can do, because so many do it because they know they can't find anything any better than the one that said yes!

So in my case I guess it's realistic. :rollin

But seriously, that's one excellent statement there sir. Bravo.
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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby -Thrax » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:45 am

Quote:
I hope we come as a society to a point where two people can get married if they choose to, and all the polygamist/NAMBLA freaks go to Canada.


Ahem.

I've always been confused by the passive-aggressive attacks on people of alternate sexuality, manifested in the line of thinking, "I don't care what you marry, whether it's another person or a dog." Right. Well, see, the thing is, that tends to put heteronormativity as the base line of normality once again, and implicitly puts LGTBQs on the same field as houseplants and hamsters. It's not a helpful statement. We're talking about PEOPLE here, not animals. To equate the two is a huge philosophical, to say nothing off ethical, disservice.

And for the record, Canada has no plans to allow either wife-collecting or pedophiles, so please keep those self-generated problems to yourself (need I remind you of the country of origin of NAMBLA and a little place you call "Utah"). :rolleyes

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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby VectorAWX3 » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:52 am

Wait wait wait... WTF is wrong with wife-collecting? Seriously? If several consenting chicks feel the need to simultaneously ride the Nidal pole, what the hell business is it of anyone's to say they can't do it? (and I'm not being a PITA, I'm serious).

NABMLA, on the other hand, need to hold a convention on the Titanic II. I wouldn't send them up to Canada. Canadian kids deserve better than that.
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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby -Thrax » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:58 am

I have less of a problem with polygamy as I do with pedophilia -- but what we're talking about here, as far as the gay rights activists are concerned, is the right of TWO CONSENTING ADULTS to engage in a civil bond recognized as legal and with all the benefits pertaining to a married couple of heterosexual origin. The alarmists who want to put a stop to gay marriage throw the polygamy issue in as a smoke grenade or red herring, but it is as far as I'm concerned a radically different issue, one I have not had the time to think about in any real sense.

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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby VectorAWX3 » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:03 am

But it's not a smoke-screen. It's a legitimate issue. As far as I'm concerned, it's as fine as hetro or gay marriage. Adults getting together to do what they do. Why should gay and lesbian couple be able to get "hitched" while me, my wife, and our three girlfriends can't? What gives?

The fact that this all gets so complicated--multi-person health benefits, etc.--is the precise reason I say they should scrap the whole system.
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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby -hokiegamer » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:05 am

Agreed and apologies are in order.

These are people and in many cases people with strong feeling that are ignored by introducing silly comparisons. The point is that if a valid party entering into a marriage contract under the states definition is not a reasonable party according to a religious or historical context is irrelevant. If the law says they can, they can.

But you could at least accept Bill Paxton in Canada, right? Some things realy just shouldn't stay in the US or be allowed to do HBO series.

I'm familiar with Utah and the wacky Mormon camps in the four corners region where many of the polygamists hide. It's sick and the news exclusives really don't do it justice. The issues I have with that go far beyond their idea of "marriage" and into the child abuse, incest and pedophilia that they encourage.

Which is why I find it curious that people always compare those practices, which are in most ways against society's best interests, with gay marriage. Two adult men or two adult women getting together is not necessarily a bad thing. Not more than a man and a women at any rate. A man and a child always will be.
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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby -The Fabulous Orcboy » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:19 am

Hokie, Nidal, this is an easy solution:

So long as it's all consenting adult humans, it's fine.

If you're missing any one of these three elements, it's not.

Zip, bam, boom: polyamory is fine. Pedophilia and bestiality are not
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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby mauleed » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:22 am

Hokie:It's also not fair to assume that polygamy can only exists as it does in those whacky Moron-ish cults in Utah.

I'm sure if it were legal there would be plenty of families that would fit that bill yet not be disfunctional.

Do you think if it were legal Nidal would suddenly start marrying 13 year olds?
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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby -Thrax » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:25 am

In principle I have no problems with polyamorous relationships or legal bonds. The problem, as with so many of these issues, is historical. At the risk of offending those whose origin is in polygamous societies, I think it's fair to generalize that patriarchal polygamy -- the overwhelming majority of polygamous societies being this -- tends to feature women whose civic and legal rights are far below those of men. Which isn't to say that there is an inherent, philosophical connection between polygamy and the repression of women -- only that the historical and ethnographic record would indicate otherwise.

At this point, it's rather like advocating communism because it works in theory. In the future? Who knows.

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Re: New Jersey and the "Culture Wars"

Postby -hokiegamer » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:40 am

Ed,

I don't think Nidal would do it. I can't understand why anyone would want more than one spouse, let alone multiple wives!

I don't know if polygamy, or polyandry, would be different and lead to different home environments in this country if either institution were legal and accepted. It's almost a chicken and the egg sort of problem.

My only experiences with either type of polyamory have been when I was growing up in Arizona and seeing what their camps and families were like. Or in Virginia when my wife and I were foster parents and we dealt with a few kids from similar cult like environments that encouraged the practice.

Would it be different if it were legal? I don't know. But I doubt the people that I've seen that currently engage in that behavior would act any different if it were legal to have multiple spouses.

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