FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

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FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby subversive » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:29 am

Breaking off from the prior discussion, I wanted to clarify why people thought the way they do on the awkward/multiple charges section. My read of that section did not leave me with the impression that it was limited to any of the things that were brought up, i.e. that the charging unit had to be wider than the unit being charged, or that it had to be behind the unit being charged, or that the secondary charges had to be in the front (not flank). Would you guys mind elaborating on how you reached those conclusions? I'm not saying you're wrong, just trying to understand why you're seeing it differently that I am
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby xmbk » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:06 am

It can happen that a unit finds itself just out of combat
because it is fractionally further away than one lined next
to it, or at a slight angle compared to the chargers. In
reality the chargers would not simply stop and form a
neat line whilst their enemy are so close. Therefore, the
chargers are automatically moved into contact if they are
within 1" of the second enemy unit and assuming the
chargers have enough move left to reach them.


The above quote is pretty clear on it. The Dryads are not "fractionally further away" or "lined next to it", and the chargers remaining movement could never draw them in. The whole idea of double charges is that the chargers could contact both units. You can never contact with the flank of a charging unit.
Not caring adds a whole new dimension to the game.
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby -poxous » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:30 am

Damn straight!
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby subversive » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:04 pm

Poxous, you're ignoring the whole previous paragraph:

Quote:
...If the process of alignment carries you into further enemy units then those units become drawn into the combat and the whole lot are aligned into a battleline in order to bring as many models into combat as possible. In these cases it is often necessary to move all the units, chargers and targets, in order to form a convincing battleline. Units hit during realignment have the usual options for charged troops: they can flee, hold or stand & shoot.


The FAQ is covering two completely separate scenarios. One is where a second unit is a fraction of an inch past a unit's charge range. The other is when an alignment will bring a charging unit into contact with a second unit. It's explicit in stating that this can happen, so the second unit does not have to be moved away: in fact, you'd be breaking the rule if you DID move it away. If you're charging and one of your own units is in the way, you might move that out of the way, or re-arrange the combat so as to "keep it clean," but the rule clearly states that "If the process of alignment carries you into further enemy units then those units become drawn into the combat," so you specifically wouldn't move it out of the way according to that.

If you disagree that's fine, but please explain how that paragraph doesn't mean what I'm saying it means, because I want to understand why you're reading it differently
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby -gjnoronh » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:40 pm

Dicedogs - can you say that again I lost you in that train of thought.


Gary
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby -poxous » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:07 pm

Look at the pics. Notice it says BATTLELINE which doesn't mean flank charges. Also, note GW baned the drawn in rules( which where seperate from these exact words) last ed and did not include them this Ed. You simply can't touch a unit you did not charge. Sorry it is in the charge rules. No where in you example does my charge movement carry me into a enemy. Alliment does but does not have too. Legally I can charge 1 to model and clip so my version is wholely within the rules.
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby subversive » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:08 pm

Shortened version, with illustrations:

scenario 1: as poxous described, a unit is drawn into combat because it's under 1" away from a hanging part of a charging unit. Like this:


scenario 2: a unit is drawn into combat as a result of an alignment, like this:


Poxous seems (to me anyway) to be trying to apply the criteria for scenario 1 to scenario 2, which I don't think is possible. The text from the paragraph I quoted (again, to me) says that a unit that is hit by an alignment wheel is drawn into combat, period
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby subversive » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:10 pm

poxous, sorry cross post. Can you point me to where in the charge rules it says you can't touch a unit you didn't charge? Because that's in direct contradiction to this FAQ, and if there are conflicting rules I'd like to know about it. All I could find was on page 21-22 where it said "we're not going to provide examples, look on our website."

The banning of this in 6th has no bearing on it in 7th. New edition, new rules
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby subversive » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:21 pm

For easy reference, here's the relevant rule that I was able to find.

Quote:
Aligning the Combatants
Once the charging unit is in contact, it is automatically aligned against its enemy to form a battle line. This extra alignment move is free.

If it is impossible to align a unit properly because of interposing terrain, other models, or whatever, then it is acceptable to realign the charged unit as well (or instead) so that the battle lines remain neat. A confusing situation may arise when interposing terrain or models make it impossibl eto align the whole unit, for example. Rather than clutter the rules with endless clarifications, we have included further examples on our website.


Nowhere here does it say you can move the dryads. Pre-FAQ, you'd have to re-align the treeman.
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby -poxous » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:29 pm

Ok...

and the point of that is...? My point is you can charge the treeman without having to align. You can do this:

TT
--CC

Now if we a ranked unit charging there then the quote you gave is the correct way to play it because they would have to bring as many models as they could into combat within there movement.

Note it says if you align into other MODELS you move the models in the combat so this will not happen. So that destroys the Duke Boys slide into combat with a chariot. So clearly the rules say aligining into models is not combat. That is the difference between this and drawn into combat. Drawn in refers to the battleline which is formed AFTER troops are aligned into combat.
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