FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby -poxous » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:00 pm

I wish I had the ability to draw on here.

The appendix is talking about( fig 1 in appendix that you ignore the referance to in the rules) when a unit is so close to the enemy it can not wheel properly to hit them with out hitting another unit. You are ignoring the pictures it refers to.

BBBBBB--DDDDDD
------------------
-----1CCCCC3

C can charge, legally B or D. The trouble is C is to close to wheel say fixing model 1 to hit unit B. So this appendix says you can make the charge by fixing 3 and wheeling 1 into B so you have to work it out. Often you bring both B and D into combat to form a battleline.

No where does it say you can touch anyother unit. You are ingnoring the fundamental rules of the Charge and of Alignment. Read the appendix and apply the Pics they give you. Those pics look nothing like the ones you are posting. What you have done here is mistake the situtation above with something else covered in the rules. You can not claim this appendix is the to clarify something it does not state it is clarifying! You are telling me they put an appendix in the rules that says to ingore the rules on charging( units on the FRONT can be charged) and the Alignment rules( no touching other MODELS - says nothing about friend or foe). You can make assumetions. Assuming things makes an ASS out of U & ME.

I really think you guys are caught up in the good old heat of internet battle and have lost the point through the fog of war. Like I said post this on TWF( I would but I can't make sweet pics). What you are offering as a 'rule' totally and completely changes the game. If it where correct I doubt it'd happen 7-8 years after the appendix was writen.

BTW, breaking out the good old "I called GW rules boyz" was classic.

:hat
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby subversive » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:32 pm

Poxous, I'm not continuing this conversation with you. We've both stated our cases. I'm not missing anything. I've read through both the charging and appendix rules about 15 times a piece, and it's clear as day to me that it is the way I say it is, just like it's crystal clear to you that it is the way you say it is. The post was directed to jchris to explain how his interpretation differed from mine, nothing more
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby -poxous » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:47 pm

Well I am sorry about that. I really feel bad that you are playing this very wrong. If this was a real debatable issue( like khorne knights frenzy before the FAQ) I'd understand dropping it or going to a d6. This is not in the ball park of that. I don't understand you possition at all and hope you are arguing with me because I'm vocal more than the fact that you really think you can 'flank' charge people. I certainly hope you realize the reaction you'll get pulling this off at a GT or something. Good Luck.
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby Bauhaus » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:03 pm

First off, this isnt a rules question. Ive read the rules (and reread them) and I know what they say. (Please quote them to your hearts content though!) The original question was based on a situation that occurred while playing the game. Both players, lets assume, knew the rules.

Second, given the situation, there is no single right way to play this because there isn't a rule covering it. Claims of "flank charging," while humorous, isn't supportable or unsupportable by the rules as written just as GW left "clipping or sliding" up to the players. Any solution only needs to make sense over the board. I have no doubt that we could all come up with solutions that would make sense. I.e., if Matt wouldn't allow being drawn into the flank under any circumstance I'd be forced to agree and play on.

Third, Ive only been playing this game weekly with the Warmongers for 5-years (I got my Dwarf Army Box in Feb. of 2002!) So, you may consider the time Ive spent to be meager in comparison to the old hats that have been playing much longer than I. But I have been playing games with rules for nearly 45 years (I didnt play games with rules as a baby of course, I started playing chess when I was 6.)

So, for what its worth, heres my take on the situation.

First rule is follow the rules. Given the original situation and Subversives comments, I believe that they did indeed follow the rules as written. What they had to do though, was go beyond the rules and look for a solution that made sense on the field. I think they did that during the game as well.

Both players have positioned their forces on the battle field. Let me assume that the Dryads, Treeman, Chariot and Ogres have all made it to their initial current positions because thats where the owning players wanted them to be. Charges are declared because thats what the attacker wanted to do. The battle line is drawn (not a straight line but a 90 degree angle with possibly another 90 degree bend.

Its obvious that the chariot, when aligned into position will make contact, on the chariots flank with the Dryads.

As Papa pointed out, there are a few things that could happen all of which would be literally outside of the letter of the rules. (As discussed ad nauseam with clipping.)

Because the units involved are chariots, skirmishers, monsters and r&f units there are even more options to consider.

But I wont repeat what Ive said already because I still would offer the same advice.
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby -poxous » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:30 am

David you are ignoring page 21 and the rules for aligning troops in combat!

It says of you align into a model or terrain then adjust the charged target. Plain and clear it is there on page 21.

That is it. This appendix doesn't address anything about aligning into combat( and it shows pics to referance each point it makes and saying 1 or 2 lines from it superceed the RULES on page 21 is nonesence. There is no grey area here. the appendix solves a way to deal with a charge that can touch can not be completed without another unit being in the combat. Note they say the word CHARGE a lot on how the combat happened.

I don't doubt anyone ability to read the rules but as a guy who has misread a rule or two myself I am say for Gods Sake man don't try this in a real game! At this point I am asking again, the third time, if you don't trust us post on the TWF.

And the canadians dropped the power bomb with the little bit about the appendix not being 'rules' but guildlines to follow through wierd stuff. Nuff said there. You can not pull this over page 21 and say it is a FAQed rule.
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby xmbk » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:45 am

You have to admit, the "Dukes of Hazzard" slide reference was kinda funny. ;)
Not caring adds a whole new dimension to the game.
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby subversive » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:03 am

Trump card:

Just read the intro to the appendices. They are not rules. REPEAT: they are not rules. We now return you to your regularly scheduled Warhammer game, where you can safely ignore the appendix because... they are not rules.

/palmface

edit: hah! That's what I get for not reading the rest of the thread... Yea, we found that "not rules" bit a few minutes ago too. Have I mentioned that I'm married to a canadian? From Vancouver, no less! Good people, those canucks
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby Bauhaus » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:28 am

Poxus, give it a rest.

The "Most Important Rule" wouldn't be the most important rule if the rules covered all situations possible on the board.

Just because you believe that the rules on page 21 cover the situation doesnt mean that I do. You cant make me! That doesnt mean Im not applying the rules or ignoring them, it means I dont see them as covering being drawn into combat.

So, if our goals are to come up with the best situation what would you do given the following situation:

After a few rounds of combat a unit of 2 Bloodcrushers is forming a battle line with a large block of ranked Orcs. Theres a Bloodthirster facing the flank of the Orcs. The BT declares a charge on that unit.

Place a second unit of Orcs, thats not yet in combat, next to and parallel to the unit already in combat. Its also in the front arc of the charging BT. How does the second unit affect the charge?

Assume 3 positions for the second unit a) positioned more than 1 back from the original battle line, b) within 1 of the battle line, or c) on the battle line (but more than 1 away from the remaining Bloodcrushers.)
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby VectorAWX3 » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:30 am

Quote:
Have I mentioned that I'm married to a canadian? From Vancouver, no less! Good people, those canucks.
As long as he treats you well...


(Note: I have no idea why I was compelled to post that comment. It's a bit like message-board Tourrette's, methinks.
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Re: FAQ Appendix: awkward/multiple charges (cont. from chariots)

Postby subversive » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:37 am

No worries Nidal. At least I could read it, unlike last week when you were posting drunk. Again
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