Does the Helstorm require LOS??

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Does the Helstorm require LOS??

Postby -Papa Gino » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:09 pm

The Helstorm language in the Empire book simply says something like: "nominate the target model and pivot the Helstorm to face it".

Then, just above it, there is language along the lines of: "the Helstorm follows all rules for war machines in the Warhammer rulebook." And one of these rules (page 85 of the rulebook) states "war machines normally require line of sight."

Theoretically, this all could be argued both ways - "there is no specific LOS requirement in Helstorm rules, so no LOS" and "there is no specific rule overriding the LOS language in the main rules, so LOS". I'm leaning towards "LOS == required" (basically erring on the side of caution), but was wondering if anyone else had a view.
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Re: Does the Helstorm require LOS??

Postby mauleed » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:09 pm

LOS is definitely required. Nothing in the helstorm rules specifically negates the general shooting rule that requires LOS.
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Re: Does the Helstorm require LOS??

Postby -TheRooster101 » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:31 pm

Plus, I believe that everyone should always play in the manner that represents how a real battle would take place. Even though from a birds eye view you can see all the units on the board your units on the table can't. I always try to maintain this when using war machines that are guessed ranges. It is not in the spirit of the game to "over guess" or "under guess" a range in order to hit a unit that you can't see. Or fire a cannon at an engaged close combat unit's flank even though you are not supposed to be able to fire at units in close combat.
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Re: Does the Helstorm require LOS??

Postby -Papa Gino » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:51 pm

Figured as much, tks.
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Re: Does the Helstorm require LOS??

Postby -Jarrett » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:53 pm

So, in order, it a) follows the rules of war machines, b) you select a target and fire. So, needing line of sight as all war machines do, you then select a target and fire as the Helstorm rules dictate. A bit of a stretch to ignore LOS given it explicitly says it follows war machine rules
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Re: Does the Helstorm require LOS??

Postby mauleed » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:53 pm

It is not in the spirit of the game to "over guess" or "under guess" a range in order to hit a unit that you can't see.

Gav Thorpe completely disagrees with you.
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Re: Does the Helstorm require LOS??

Postby -Jarrett » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:12 pm

When it comes to things like cannons I've said it before and I'll say it again: they are supposed to be able to shoot beyond their legit target and it is factored into their cost. There's no way they're fairly costed at 85-100 points otherwise
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Re: Does the Helstorm require LOS??

Postby -Papa Gino » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:20 pm

Well this is actually an interesting point, since with the Helstorm, the initial aiming point is guessed-at like a cannon - and the logical incentive would be to overshoot (rather than undershoot) so as to decrease the probability of the template scattering directly back towards the Helstorm and the rest of the army.
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Re: Does the Helstorm require LOS??

Postby mauleed » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:24 pm

Well it's 100% legal, and confirmed to be intended and encouraged by GW. That should be enough to satisfy anyone.
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Re: Does the Helstorm require LOS??

Postby -TheRooster101 » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:37 pm

So GW has confirmed that its okay for war machines to fire at targets they cannot see? I just want to make sure since I will bring this up to my friends. We try very hard to play by tournament rules. If it is allowed there then I have no problem playing by it.

My only issue with it is that you could put cannons directly in back of a unit and it can fire anywhere since it is a guessed range unlike units that have to specifically shoot at a target. However, I will play the way the majority of the gaming community does.
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