To slay a dragon...

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Re: To slay a dragon...

Postby robk » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:40 pm

I have a way that Brets can take out a Dragon. It requires that you sacrifice a lance of 6 errant or KOTR.
The problem Brets have against flying monsters is that their lances are hurt by people landing right next to them. As any lance of 9 with a hero should be able to take a dragon if he charges you in the front.
Basically you use a lance of 6 knights to protect your flanks. They are positioned so if he lands to take a position on your flank you can charge him.
If a unit of 6 errants or KOTR w/std & mus charge a chaos dragon, you challenge, he kills on average 2.7. You have combat res of 3 with musician so you should beat him 58% of the time. But more importantly 82% of the time the worst that will happen is you are beaten by one, assuming you hold.
During your movement phase you turn your big block of knights w/ hero to face said dragon.
In his turn, he destroy's the unit he is in H2H with. Big deal. He is either where he stands or 3d6 inches straight forwards.
You charge him either in his front/flank with you big block of knights w/BSB, hero and he go byebye. Strategy works even better if the 2nd unit is grails.
While I only faced one dragon with my brets I used this strat and it worked exactly as described. I've used this same method on lots of other flying beasties with good results.
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Re: To slay a dragon...

Postby Bauhaus » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:53 pm

I still think the Sepelcure (sp?) is one of the best ways for Empire to kill big nasties.

The suggestions on how to protect your flanks are also well done, but hoping that a big nasty will charge you in the front or do what YOU want is probably a doomed plan.

Most rank and file will beat big nasties eventually when charged in the front so only a fool would charge you in the front. They should always be trying to flank you.

One option is to continue to try and destroy targets favorable to you. Harder said than done, but if you don't have anything to kill the dragon, kill other things instead.

Don't forget that flyers can't charge into the woods (by flying). So don't leave a little corner of your unit sticking out.

Just because Nidal explains that he's actually in the woods when he isn't is a quick way of avoiding the problem but if he tells you that because he can't actually make it into the woods or because he's too lazy to actually put all his models in the right place, make your opponent do so. There's no better way to avoide a dispute than to NOT play loose and sloppy.
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Re: To slay a dragon...

Postby VectorAWX3 » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:56 pm

Right, but I'm talking about when you have plenty of movement, and you don't feel like breaking out the laser-pointer. :b
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Re: To slay a dragon...

Postby -veritas117 » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:51 pm

What about when his lord riding the dragon has an halberd? Will that 2.7 still work when there are 11 str6 attacks coming at me? Because that's kinda what I did last time...but it didn't work.

Also, since I left my book elsewhere, can I attack the dragon when in combat, or does it have to be the rider?

A different thought on defending my flank...what if I put a chunky block of grail peasants to counter the dragon lord? Surely a stubborn block o' peasants can hold him up.
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Re: To slay a dragon...

Postby robk » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:03 am

The 2.7 is based on 11 Str6 attacks hitting on 3's.
The grail peseants can work but lack a large enough zone of control due to their Mv 4. A lance of 6 knights has large zone of control
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Re: To slay a dragon...

Postby mauleed » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:04 am

5 lord attacks, 10/3 hit, 50/18 wound (let's assume a flail), 250/108 failed saves, 500/324 failed ward saves, or 1.54

6 dragon attacks, 4 hit, 20/6 wound, 40/18 failed saves, 80/54 failed ward saves, or 1.48

So 3.02

So the lance still wins by a musician.
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Re: To slay a dragon...

Postby -poxous » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:19 am

Rob is right on. A dragon/lord takes up so much of an army, esp a chaos army, that you should have extra lances to do this. I think sending in some errants with the errant banner( S6) and then chrging in with the CR unit nice is the way to go.

Stubborn peasants are great but... you have to assume your opponent is not foolish enough to send his dragon into a stubborn unit.

If you could just get a block of normal peasants on the dragons flank/rear after it is pinned the critter is in trouble.
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Re: To slay a dragon...

Postby VectorAWX3 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:01 am

Not necessarily... if you put normal peasants in the flank, the dragon and rider might just direct ALL their attacks against the peasants, butchering enoug to win combat, regardless of the added rank bonus and flank bonus. Sometimes, it's better NOT to charge in the flanks or rears of existing combats.
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Re: To slay a dragon...

Postby -poxous » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:08 am

That is why you challange with that sweet FREE knight champ. Let him get his 2.7Ws vs the ranks/flank/rear/banner/US of the peasant phalanx of DOOM!
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Re: To slay a dragon...

Postby VectorAWX3 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:11 am

And you'd better hope he breaks! :b
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