Empire army list

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Re: Empire army list

Postby Ring87 » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:59 am

John, I am no expert on Empire. I have read a lot of battle reports and played Empire a few times. So here is my two cents.

Empire is a tough challenging list to play. Medium level power army that would need to be active in every phase of the game to truly be competitive. I know your disdain for magic. (I agree, it just slows me down and only occasionally does something really worth while.) I think you would need to compromise a little. Either with the Priests or mages.

Elements of the new list that I have heard do well.
1. Arch Lector on War Alter (as stated). Either with that bad a$$ mace or Van Hals+(he only get 2 attacks)

2. BSB, Mounted, Barded with the Banner Of Sigismund (Stubborn)+all 25 of your swordsmen. Plus war banner if you use your general for that 7 Static Combat Res. Add a flank charge and your in business. Screen them with the Huntsmen.

3. Steam Tank. It draws allot of attention and is nearly indestructible. Its no longer as effective or as hard to use. Better than a giant(dies to easy).

4.Outriders Rock, BS 4 handguns+tricks,ie priest cast bound reroll to hit and wound on your champ with the hochland sniper rifle ect. Your Pistoleers are still good.

5. Multiple 5 man nilla knights for Dryads and support units.

For extra help use your empire ogres as DOW. The general on the Griffon is also nice but I am sure you know all that.
Stick the enemy and use cascading flank charges to do the rest.

Empire has access to all the lores as you know and some of them hose certain armies. Light vs undead ect. To take advantage I would add mages to your list otherwise you'll have to exploit another phase.



Thats about it.
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Re: Empire army list

Postby KevinC » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:08 am

John,

I believe the list I made above could go up against tough armies and do well. However, I made another list trying to use of the other stuff your interested in. Note taking Emperor Karl Franz is the only way to get a Dragon - which is cool - but he is expensive!

Total came out to 2,247 (again!)

CHARACTERS
700 - Emperor Karl Franz + Ghal Maraz + Imperial Dragon (he is nasty John - Greater Daemon slayer here for sure!).

119 - Warrior Priest + Great Weapon + Armour of Meteoric Iron (1+ armour save).

115 - Battle Wizard + Dispel Scroll x2

CORE
169 - 24 Swordsmen + Full Command (Warrior Priest goes here).
96 - 12 Handgunners (detachment).

140 - 20 Spearmen + Shields + Full Command
96 - 12 Handgunners (detachment).

155 - 5 Knights + Full Command

155 - 5 Knights + Full Command

SPECIAL
200 - 2 Great Cannons
75 - Mortar

RARE
117 - 3 Ogre Bulls + Additional clubs.

110 - Hellblaster

The Dragon is expensive, of course, but neat! I think you should include the Emperor on the Dragon in your army John, it will be very unquie as not many Empire players do this!

This list was just kinda off the top of my head, but I think it could be a start for something.

Kevin ou
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Re: Empire army list

Postby Larro » Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:28 am

John,

Outriders are horrible. Don't listen to whoever said they're good. They're only BS4 because they're multi-shot, which means they're REALLY BS3 when it comes down to it - you're hitting on 4s or 5s. And you get 1/3 the models...meaning no survivability, and they're STILL Move or Fire, so...Outriders = Ass

If you want something like you're describing, take the Dragon, a Lvl2 Mage Scroll Caddy and 2 Priests, then take some Knights, a few units of infantry to distract, and guns. And Id take a Steam Tank also.

You've got everything, so you'll figure it out.

I can't believe someone likes Outriders. Amazing.

And I got laughed at for using Ranked Infantry.

- Larr
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Re: Empire army list

Postby AndyP » Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:50 pm

Here's my 2250 point Empire List.

Archlector (on foot): Armour of Met Iron, 4+ ward, Icon of Magnus
BSB: Horse, Sword of Might, Casket
Captain: Pegasus, Pistol, Sword of +1 to hit, Doomfire Ring
Wizard: Level 2, Rod of Power

25 Swordsmen: FC, 5 archers, 9 swordsmen
12 Flagellants: Champion
10 Knights: FC, war banner
5 Knights: Musician
10 Handgunners: Champ with sniper rifle, 5 free company

20 Greatswords: FC, 5 Archers, 5 Swordsmen
5 Pistolliers: Musician, Champ with repeater
5 Pistolliers: Musician, Champ with repeater
Cannon


It's unplaytested (only one game so far), but contains all the elements I think a combined-arms Empire force needs.

Andy P
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Re: Empire army list

Postby -John Bianchi » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:44 am

Kevin,

That's more in the neighborhood of what I was thinking. That dragon does eat up points, but I think it may be worth it. Plus, less clean up time after a game when you put 1/3 of your points in one model ;)

You and Andy P have given me some excellent food for thought.
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Re: Empire army list

Postby mattbird » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:13 am

Quote:
Well don't get us wrong Matt. Nothing is more fun to play and play against than Tzeentch Daemon Legion.


...and wood elves, skinky lizardmen, monster island lizardmen, bretonnia, vampires, tomb kings, Khorne Legion, sea guard, nurgle legion...

but it's not like we have many of THOSE armies at our club, either!:b
jer732 wrote:Birdoff makes me want to rage quit life
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Re: Empire army list

Postby Ring87 » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:55 am

I guess everyone has their own Idea about chesse. A special character on a dragon would be a great matchup for Tzeentch DL;) . In reality it's sad that thats about what Empire needs to compete with top level tournament cheese.

Of course there is always the high road which looks allot like Andy P's list.......IMO

I take back the hear-say outrider comment: .
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Re: Empire army list

Postby Larro » Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:01 am

Well, I don't think the Empire needs the Dragon to compete...and the only way to get the Dragon is Karl Franz anyway. Birdoff hates RnF, so take his opinion with a grain of salt. 3 blocks of Empire infantry with detachments provides you with static combat res for the cheap - roughly 200 points give or take. Or 100 points for 20 militia. Or the now cheaper Greatswords or Flagellants, providing Stubborn or Unbreakable respectively.

Giving up on RnF will not win you any tournaments with Empire. The whole deal with the point decreases are that you can fit more infantry, greatswords and flagellants, and STILL fit in all the shooting and combat elements. Empire plays in all phases of the game, and does it very well. Smart players will capitalize on it.

- Larr
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Re: Empire army list

Postby -John Bianchi » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:28 am

No, Empire doesn't need a dragon to win. Nothing does. And taking one isn't a guarantee of winning games either.

But Matt is right about one thing: play an army that not only ignores traditional linnear tactics, but also turns them into an achilles heel, and five ranked units coming across the board isn't something to be feared so much as an opportunity for selecting a good weak point and butchering the opposing army into segments.

Empire and DOW played traditionally in line of battle has an uphill slog against armies that have the mobility to leave them striking empty air. Chaos Demon legions and smartly constructed Chaos armies, Elves of any stripe and Lizardmen can absolutely leave them in the dust.

So what the hell? There is no such thing as 'cheese'. that's the cry of the person who won't adapt to the reality of the state of the game. Even when I would continue to play intentionally outmoded builds, I woudn't call anything 'cheesy'. Hell no one even use the word anymore since comp was killed off.

So - 700 points of wizards and magic items, 700 points of warmachines and missile troops, 700 points of flying nasties, 700 points of ranked units. All about the same, isn't it?

.
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Re: Empire army list

Postby Larro » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:42 am

Heh. That's 2800 points. But I won't tell anyone. ;)

Take the Dragon, by all means. That's the new trend at our Club anyway, unfortunately. Dragons or their equivalents aren't needed to win, not even with Empire. If anything, Empire has the tools to deal with big nasties better than most. Besides, the best way to neutralize a Dragon is to ignore it.

You take enough magic and shooting and you can stop anything. Backed up with your own cheap infantry, and a few potent counter attack units, like Knights or a Steam Tank, and the same thing your opponent is doing to you - hitting your soft areas; you can be doing to him. Shoot, magic and smash everything but his Dragon, and I bet you'll win more games than you lose.

I say definitely try the Dragon out. There will be games where your Dragon dies turn 1, and you're out 600+ points, and a General and there will be games where it crushes everyone.

Comp may officially be killed off, but it doesn't mean Compy armies won't still win the day at the tournaments. You can simply tank someone's Sportsmanship instead.

- Larr
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