Empire versus Bretonnians 2250 pts

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Empire versus Bretonnians 2250 pts

Postby -RATchman » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:33 pm

Thought you guys would like to see how the new Empire works. I haven't yet tried any of the unusual things such as the War Altar or Atchlector.

NEBPIRE Battle Report: Empire versus Bretonnians

I got my New Empire book when my box set arrived the day after Christmas. My army list didnt change that much from what I would normally play.

Empire Army List: 2250 pts

Elector Count, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Barded Warhorse, Holy Relic, Sword of Might
Level 2 Wizard with Metal magic, Wizards Staff, Dispel Scroll
Level 2 Wizard, Fire Magic, Doomfire Ring, Dispel Scroll
Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armor, Barded Warhorse, Banner of Sigismund

27 Swordsmen, Standard Bearer, Musician, War Banner
10 Free Company Detachment

29 Swordsmen, Full Command
10 Free Company Detachment
10 Handgunners
10 Crossbowmen
5 Knights, Musician
5 Knights, Musician
5 Knights, Musician
20 Greatswords, Full Command
10 Halberdiers Detachment
2 x Great Cannons
12 Flagellants

Bret List

Lord (Wyrmlance, Siriennes Locket, Virtue of Confidence)
BSB (War Banner), thing that give him an additional +1 CR
2x lvl2 Life Mages (3 dispel scroll, Chalice)

2x6 KOTR (full cmd)
2x8 KOTR (full cmd)
3x 16 Men At Arms (full cmd)
6 Mounted Yeomen
12 Archers
10 Skirmishing Archers
3 Pegasus Knights

2250 points (Im not certain this is correct but it is a good guess)

Early Turn (my wife had my camera)

I thought Carl would mass his forces in the nice clear area in the middle of the table. My BSBs unit and the Greatswords were deployed there in battalion formation. Instead he pretty evenly split his forces to go around the tower, which was off center to my left.

Because of the terrain I placed my Handgunners and crossbowmen in pretty useless positions, they had no real effect on the game except to plink a peasant or two. On the far left I placed my Generals Swordsmen, the flagellants and a unit of vanilla knights. Facing half of Carls army I hoped this was enough to hold.

My cannons picked off a couple of knights. I was doing my best to destroy one of the lances before it could come into contact, but due to some poor rolling and the ward saves, the best I did was one knight per turn. I followed that up with a couple of misfires and my cannons were pretty ineffective.

I pushed hard on the right flank with my infantry since his line was shaded to the left.

Because of casualties, Carl re-deployed one unit of knights in a wide formation and so that his wizard could cast some spells. As you can see Carl was trying to do the same thing I was trying to do, which was to try and get me to charge the peasants and then flank with his cavalry. He didnt realize that my infantry block was stubborn (Im sure he knew the Greatswords were stubborn).

This was the traffic jam on my left flank. I sent the flagellants ahead to try and open up the way by pinning his yeomen in place. As you can see I made a slight mistake with the knights. I should have just held them back but instead I chose to send them forward to support the flagellants. Silly me, I was trying to unmask the crossbowmen so they could shoot.

If youve ever heard of TVI/battalion concept tactics, this is a textbook picture of the classic formation in action. The infantry is leading trying to provoke the charge and the cavalry is in position to flank. Handgunners are deployed behind the lines to shoot targets of opportunity. I decided to move them forward since there were no threats to my flank. As you can see, the Great Cannon is deployed to shoot targets that are the closest threat to the infantry blocks. The single rank unit of knights is a testament to its effectiveness.

Since Carl wasnt being too aggressive, I decided to see if I could push the peasants out of the way and better provoke the charge. My Greatswords charged as a unit of vanilla knights. I was hoping that the vanilla knights could push through the peasants so that the BSBs unit could advance through the hole. With the Bret BSB and a unit of knights nearby, the silly peasants held most of the game, thus taking my BSBs unit out of the action. The Greatswords blew through the peasants and eventually destroyed the depleted knight unit taking one of the sorcerors with it. However, I was now out of position to do anything else the rest of the game except be an archery target for the peasants.

The Bretonnian BSB bailed out of his knight unit, which also deployed in a wide formation since it had no rank bonuses anyway. I fired at least 5 cannon shots at him the entire game, but never could knock him out. The one time I did hit him I rolled a 1 to wound! L

The Empire left flank.

Carl pressed me very hard on this flank setting up what he was aiming for the entire time-his Generals unit versus my own. He eventually blew through the flagellants and caused both my vanilla knights and my detachment to have to flee from some charges. This left my Generals unit alone to fight the hated Brets!

Using the combination that Bigrin uses, the Bretonnian General yelled out a challenge. I had a pretty bad feeling about this since he had the ability to re-roll both wounds and to hit. Four hits and four wounds battered my general. I picked up four dice and got two armor saves. The Holy Relic protected me from the other two whacks and my General lived! In fact, he caused a wound with his Sword of Might. While the knights caused a couple of casualties, it wasnt enough to overcome my rank bonus and my War Banner. Only the BSB saved the Bretonnians from a full on bounce.

Unit after unit piled into the melee but with no results. I repositioned my BSB nearby to help just in case. Over the next three combat turns, my General caused one wound per turn and killed his General on turn six! I lost my Crossbowmen the detachment and the vanilla knights, but preserved my Generals unit.

My last photo

As you can see the Bretonnians are finishing up my crossbowmen and my vanilla knights in the far corner. A detachment of Free Company left the table, unable to rally.

My BSB charged his BSB, but neither could hurt each other, and I kept losing melee because he had both a War Banner and the +1 CR virtue. My Banner of Sigismund saved me from running away and losing an expensive asset.

Eventually the Peasants broke and this allowed my vanilla knights to charge into the flank of one of the depleted lances in his turn. In my turn my Wizards unit charged into the front of the unit. I was fortunate to cast the Flaming Sword of Rhuin on the wizard. Carl had no choice but to let it stay since I had some metal magic left. Over the course of the game, the unit was reduced to a single knight, which fled on turn six. Again, the Bretonnian Battle Standard Bearer, kept his knights steady and prevented me from sweeping through the knights and into the soft peasants.

Victory to the Empire

Though my shooting wasnt outstanding, chipping away a few of the knights caused his lances to have no rank bonuses. In the end, I got his General, two lances of knights, both wizards and that was about it. However, I only lost a unit of vanilla knights, a detachment, and some crossbowmen, plus held a vital table quarter. All three units of peasants died, while both units of peasant archers were under half.

My right flank caused me concern, but the combination on my General was excellent. Once the Bretonnian General spent his charge he had a hard time wounding my General with his 1 or better armor save and 4 or better ward save. I know the Empire flavor of the month is the Archlector, but the War Banner in that infantry unit allowed me to win melee every turn.

My List

I do like this list. It isnt a tourney winning list by any means, but it seems to be effective. While I long for my Griffon Standard and my old skool Hellblaster, the BSB and the flagellants are capable replacements for them. Im certain I would struggle against the big magic armies, but if it proves to be a problem, I can always drop my wizards back to level ones and max out the magic protection. For our local games, Ive enjoyed the balance of the magic phase. Making the Doomfire ring effective has made it a threat so now folks have to try and dispel it. That usually lets me fire off at least one other low level magic missile per turn. In this game getting the Flaming Sword was effective on my mounted wizard. The last game I tried I was fortunate to roll the Burning Head so I could fire two per turn! I think to use the Doomfire ring it is a good idea to put the Wizard on a steed so that he can close the range to throw some spells. The addition of good bound spells to the Empire book has made support magic a viable use of points. Ive been using Metal and Fire Magic every game and have been happy with the results. I would probably switch to some other lores versus say Vampires or Tomb Kings. As an afterthought I could have substituted Beast Lore for the wizard that was on foot.
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Re: Empire versus Bretonnians 2250 pts

Postby -Jarrett » Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:53 am

Excellent report! Great pics
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Re: Empire versus Bretonnians 2250 pts

Postby mattbird » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:09 am

thanks for the report
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Re: Empire versus Bretonnians 2250 pts

Postby slann » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:56 am

good report the pics make great.
Would you rather pew pew pew pew or chic chic BLAM !!! chic chic BLAM !!!!
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Re: Empire versus Bretonnians 2250 pts

Postby -RATchman » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:04 am

My newest report can be found here:


This one features the Outriders and the Hellstorm Rocket Launcher.
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Re: Empire versus Bretonnians 2250 pts

Postby -LLagroue » Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:29 am


Great report!

Let us know in the coming weeks after a few more playtests if you think the net effect for the updated Empire is positive or negative? It seems your early assessment is a wash/balance.

Lance (played you in game 1 of Colonial last year)
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Re: Empire versus Bretonnians 2250 pts

Postby -RATchman » Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:32 am

I've posted my third battle report with the new Empire on TWF:


To answer your question, I find them to be about the same in my traditional build, but I think the Archlector on the War Altar is very powerful. They have done a lot to improve the Empire's magic phase and magic protection. When you add in the improved lores of the 7th edition book, the Empire is now a threat in the magic phase.

The special characters are very good and priced very well. Kurt Helborg is just insanely good. He would cut some armies apart almost by himself.

I'm trying to use some of the new stuff to let folks know how they will do in action against a variety of opponents. The next up in the hit parade will be the engineer. I'm going to try and theme a list for the Engineer character to either show off his abilities or warn folks away from him.

I'll keep reporting in this thread as I try the new stuff
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