Dark Elf List Builds

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Re: Dark Elf List Builds

Postby -Gorbad Ironclaw » Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:25 pm

Quote:
x-bows on dark riders are practically mandatory considering how good fleeing/rallying/shooting now work for fast cav



I don't think so. Considering the high price you pay(6 points per model), I much prefer to keep my dark rider units cheap(for elves) and expandable, or a little more price and give them musicians and banners for a very nice combat unit.

Rxbs are an expensive luxury I rarely feel I'm missing. If you have 3 units, another 30 points would give you 10 Warriors with RXBs and Shields, and they are a much better unit I feel.

But of course, I don't like shades or chariots either.

Shades are just to expensive for to little. For cheaper you get yet more warriors that put out more shooting and live longer. They don't scout, but I don't feel thats a real loss.

Chariots are actually quite good. If you don't mind the frustration thats stupidity they are a very good addition to the list. Personally I get to annoyed when they fail to move as I want half the time(even on ld 10, maybe I'm cursed) so avoid anything with Cold Ones. But if you don't mind, get them.

I have tried using a hydra instead, and it actually makes a very nice tag team with a dragon. Just don't expect it to actually fight anything good(or even mediocre) and win.


RBTs. Hmm, to be honest, it's yet another unit I don't really like(this is becoming a theme, isn't it? :p ). One or two are okay, but more and they start to dictate your list and tactics. Both because they are fairly expensive for what you get, and also because your going to want to protect your investment, and that can make you static. And static DE = Dead DE.


The dragon can be a good option. I use one all the time, and it's quite good fun. It can really maul some list, and it's always something to look out for. On the other hand, a good player who knows how to deal with a dragon can make life very hard for you, and render it ineffective, but thats the chances you take. The trick is to have the rest of the list support it effectively.

For magic, as said, Dark Elves actually do mid-level magic pretty good. 2 lvl 2s with a darkstar cloak, seal of ghrond and a pair of scrolls is 7 power dice(with +1 to cast) 5 dispel dice(with 2 scrolls), and should let you keep up a decent barrage of spells. Not a killer magic list, but you will get spells through.
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Re: Dark Elf List Builds

Postby -Jarrett » Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:31 am

Nidal, you can read right? I said shades are good. Screaming emphatically that they're awesome then telling me what they're capable of over and over again shows me that you haven't read what I said.

So yes, shades are good. 1 unit is sufficient.

RBTs are a boring war machine? Nidal, please, what's an exciting war machine? Randomness? Reliability = boring to you? What a silly concept man.
1 RBT serves a variety of purposes, and the first you take I think justifies the 100 points the most. 2+ and I think you start to get less bang for your points. You'll have to keep fire lanes open and are giving your opponent more opportunities to jump the 2 man crew.

Personally I think Xbows on most of the dark riders is a good idea. You can have one cheaper throw away but I really like what these guys are capable of with xbows. I have a hard time seeing standards on dark riders being worth risking
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Re: Dark Elf List Builds

Postby VectorAWX3 » Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:53 am

Jarrett, assume I'm in various states of drunkenness at all times. You know how it is.

So then we agree, for the most part.

Yes, I think the RBT is a boring war machine. No guessing, no moving, no randomness. Boring. Not useless or worthless by any means, just not the most fun thing you can take for 100 points in a dark-elf list.
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Re: Dark Elf List Builds

Postby -LLagroue » Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:16 am

Thanks for all the thoughts- It is interesting to note the debate about the static/ non-static nature of dark elves. Moreover, it is interesting to see the lists that people are successful with, as there is significant variance amongst each.

I was looking at some common shooting scenarios concerning the repeater crossbow infantry as opposed to a RBT. As suspected, the infantry with crossbows outperform a RBT except in shooting at heavy cavalry. I agree with Jarrets point that against a good player, one should expect to lose a RBT(s) as it only has two crew. Perhaps the better answer is to drop one. With the new seventh edition targeting rules I thought xbows on chariot crew would be semi-useful as it would permit a player to target something like a ratling gun. Thanks again, I appreciate the advice.

Six bolt throwers firing at dryads
Close range= 3 hits, 1.5 wounds, 1 kill
Long range= 2 hits, 1 wound, .66 kill

10 Repeater xbow firing at dryads=
Close range= 6.6 hits, 2.2 wounds, 1.42 kills
Long range= 3.3 hits, 1.1 wounds, .726

Bolt thrower firing at Bretonnian Cavalry
Close range= 4 hits, 2.64 wounds, 1.1 kills
Long range= 3 hits, 2 wounds. .7 kills

10 repeater xbow firing at Bretonnian Cavalry
Close range= 10 hits, 5 wounds, .48 kills
Long range= .39 kills

Bolt thrower firing at ranked T3 troops with 5+ save
Close range= 2.64 kills
Long range= 2 kills

10 repeater xbows firing at ranked T3 troops with 5+ save
Close Range= 3.3 kills
Long Range= 2.16 kills
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Re: Dark Elf List Builds

Postby VectorAWX3 » Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:46 am

Lance, you didn't factor in that you could do a single shot at a bret lance and hope it goes through three knights. Also, keep in mind that warriors may be moving, and their long range is shorter, so the analysis isn't quite there.

Also, keep in mind the new rules: with an RBT on a hill, I'd march a seaguard unit up 5 inches and throw 20 shots at that RBT on the hill. 2 dead elves, coming right up. On the flip, your RxB warriors can pull the same trick against the enemy. Hills can be a bad place to be in the new edition.

That aside, I have the same conclusion that many different DE looks work.

The x-bow on the chariot shooting at lone targets is actually a very good use!

Oh.. and about Bret cav.. if you're shooting THEM with RxB's, you've either already won or lost the game. :b
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Re: Dark Elf List Builds

Postby AndyP » Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:52 am

Lance,

There is no one way to play Dark Elves. There are as many opinions on good DE lists are there are DE players (and as this thread proves). I know I have configurations that I like, but that other DE players have little success with, and vice versa.

I'm afraid the only thing you can do is to try it out for yourself. Play around with different things and see what works for you.

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Re: Dark Elf List Builds

Postby WickerNipple » Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:09 pm

omg somebody said something sensible about dark elves... i don't believe it. seriously, let's ban andyp.
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Re: Dark Elf List Builds

Postby elrodogg » Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:01 am

Quote:
Oh.. and about Bret cav.. if you're shooting THEM with RxB's, you've either already won or lost the game.


Now that's a word of brilliance! Nidal you've outdone yourself. Either won or lost the game! :rollin
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