OK, read the FAQ, here is my Rant!

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OK, read the FAQ, here is my Rant!

Postby KevinC » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:57 am

Well, I finally was able to sit down and read the Warhammer Rulebook FAQ entirely. The Errata and FAQ is great and I'm pleased with that, however the Appendices, particularly the 'Clipping' section is terrible.

In previous editions I was always against clipping; when players intentionally moved/charged so to exclude models in combat on purpose. However, I was pleased during 7th edition playtesting when this was fixed by stating the charging unit must attempt to bring as many models into combat from BOTH sides. For me this solves the problem, and the designers stated there was no such thing as sliding.Great!

MY RANT: Now, GW has given players the option of playing two totally different games of Warhammer. One by playing the proper rules (i.e. Clipping) and the other to slide the models together (i.e. your unit touches another unit and they are fully placed in combat together).

So lets say I play a game against Ronen's Lizardmen. We decided to play with no clipping (i.e. sliding). It's a close game, but Ronen wins. One of the big turning points that allows Ronen to win this game is that his Saurus units get to slide and engage all my Goblins (in example). Now if we had played the exact same game, except allowed clipping, I probably would have won (in theory) when his Saurus warriors could not slide down (the Saurus would have fewer attacks). Anyway, the point is this important rule can be played two different ways, but each way it is employed causes a completely different game and way of playing to be played.

I personally would rather play the game with clipping (which you cannot even do on purpose anymore because you must still try and bring as many models from both sides into the combat), there is much more tactical thinking involved. As the same time I know there will be so many players that will want to use the no clipping/sliding rules (I know this because even in past editions where this was illegal, players would still try and do it!) so your forced into playing this way or else your a jerk trying to abuse the rules.

I really don't want to play the game sometimes one way and other times another way.

Anyway, my point is I'm pretty much going to be forced to play Warhammer with the sliding rules, which completely dumb down and simplify the game for the little kids and players that confuse too easily.

Kevin ou
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Re: OK, read the FAQ, here is my Rant!

Postby Ganymede » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:54 pm

Ehh... The way I see it is that sliding will be just as rare as the unusual charges that spawn them. Those charges are, arguably, pretty damn rare.
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Re: OK, read the FAQ, here is my Rant!

Postby -Jarrett » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:15 pm

You're right on all counts. There's absolutely no reason they couldn't say one way or another what the proper way to play it is. In the same sentence they say sliding is proper but doesn't follow the rules - a silly thing to say when you're the rules writer!

Really I look at it this way, if you and your opponent make it clear how you're playing before the game begins then all is well. You're both playing by the same set of rules, and you both know what to expect when certain situations arise, so no distinct advantage can be gained one way or the other. It's like rerolling cocked dice - just make it clear and play it that one way
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Re: OK, read the FAQ, here is my Rant!

Postby VectorAWX3 » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:19 pm

Well, I say slide away. The problem is that in situations where units clip each other, it becomes very questionable as to how much someone can wheel before they have to move forward to get the max # of models, and I can see it leading to silly arguments, the resolution of which will significantly affect the game. Therefore, if eveyone is playing with sliding, there is no fuss. Yes, it is a slight dumbing down, but does anyone really set up the enemy so that the enemy is forced to clip? (I can see night goblins intentionally doing it as they know exatly where 8 inches is, but other than that, it seems to be an anomaly.)
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Re: OK, read the FAQ, here is my Rant!

Postby mauleed » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:59 pm

Kevin, let's organize the "No sliding" protest group. We'll all insist on zero sliding, and be very vocal about it. We'll even print up t-shirts.

It'll be great!
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Re: OK, read the FAQ, here is my Rant!

Postby KevinC » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:21 pm

Ed that is great! "No Sliding" T-shirts! John are you out there? Maybe we should do this!

Who here would want a "No Sliding!" shirt?

Kevin out
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Re: OK, read the FAQ, here is my Rant!

Postby -Jarrett » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:45 pm

If you guys fnid a printer I'd like an order of "special characters are stupid" t shirts please. ;)
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Re: OK, read the FAQ, here is my Rant!

Postby Bauhaus » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:51 pm

When I first started playing Warhammer, right before 6th edition came out, I thought that the way the new rules were written that sliding was encouraged and written into the rules. I felt that if any part of your unit was within 8 (for example) then your unit should be able to complete a charge. When you got in contact youd wheel to get as many bases in contact as possible (this could be the second wheel). Old timers told me that I was wrong and thats the way we played under 6th.

Now, GW has finally made it clear you should maximize the number of models fighting at all times

With sliding you will have a better game. It will be more realistic too. Its funny that people would actually argue that its better to have two blocks of soldiers fighting corner to corner rather than just bringing them into full frontal assault.

Some games allow that any base within a certain distance (say 2 as in Flames of War) get to fight. For Warhammer, with the desire to keep fighters in BTB, they allow sliding.

I think its great. (Of course GW doesnt just say its a rule. They wouldnt want to do that. They probably have the same argument all the time between the old and new people who work there.)
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Re: OK, read the FAQ, here is my Rant!

Postby -Jarrett » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:09 pm

Well of course you want to maximize your Khorne daemons. Jerk
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Re: OK, read the FAQ, here is my Rant!

Postby mauleed » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:21 pm

Nothing in the maximize models rules in any way allows sliding.

GW has explicitly said sliding is not legal.
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