arch lector stats

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arch lector stats

Postby -jeffcrosby » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:41 pm

Does anyone know where one can find the stats on this Empire general?
How about where one can get a sneak peek of the forthcoming Empire army book?
And does anyone think the pistoliers are a worthwhile investment now that they've been neutered by the 7th edition pistol rules?
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Re: arch lector stats

Postby WickerNipple » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:53 pm

A good rumor collection.

Rumored stats for the Arch Lector are in there.

And I don't think pistoliers got nerfed by any means - I'd say they got much better, in fact.
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Re: arch lector stats

Postby -jeffcrosby » Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:39 am

Thanks Andy;) The new rules look interesting. I especially like the reduction in points of the infantry.
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Re: arch lector stats

Postby -Jarrett » Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:48 am

Those changes are looking pretty solid. A fixed steam tank, cheaper infantry, stronger religious character... The one army I don't own
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Re: arch lector stats

Postby mauleed » Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:48 am

How are pistoliers now better?
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Re: arch lector stats

Postby WickerNipple » Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:54 am

They have a brace of handguns, so put out more close ranged shooting than before - coupled with the better fast cav rally+shoot. Loss of repeater-handgun option is a shame, but they'll recoup points on that too.

So they'll put out more shoots for less price.

Drawback: They're not shock combat troops any longer, but I think they make more sense in a support/disengage role anyway.
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Re: arch lector stats

Postby Larro » Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:30 am

As someone who was planning on building an Empire army as my next project, I am thoroughly disappointed with these rumors, which appear to be probable at worst, and all I can say is "wow."

CHARACTERS
Alright, well the EC is the same, no big deal here as Empire players are likely accustomed to the shittiest Lord character in the game by now. Captain is still the same overall bargain as usual. The Warrior Priests decrease in cost is a welcome bonus, with the Hatred vs. everyone and increased Prayer level also good additions. Engineers, theyve never been worth the spot and arent worth it now. My gripe is with the Archlector, who seemingly solved the Empire Lord slot problem when originally released by giving you an Elector Count statline with 2 dispel die for an extra 50 pts. or so. Now, you get a Warrior Priest statline for the same expensive cost. 2 Attacks, WS4, S4?!? I guess he becomes the no-brainer option for the Van Horstman's Speculum, but seriously, there's no way anyone can tell me that he was OVERPOWERED with 3 S4 attacks at WS5. The rumored Altar seems to try to compensate for his shortcomings, since its slightly underpriced at first glance (only 100 pts.), BUT its not immune to S7 instant-kill and essentially FORCES you to take it if you go with the Archlector since he's so gimpy to begin with. This was a real missed opportunity for GW to help give Empire SOME chance in the character department, and in my eyes they totally dropped the ball.

CORE
Everyone saw the points decrease coming. However, this is offset in some degree by the requisite 5-wide ranking rules of 7th edition, so really, it won't be generating too many additional troops. And Halberdiers still suck.

What gets me, is that Huntsmen are now MINIMUM US 10!! Their whole purpose was to be an infiltration unit. I'm hard pressed to find any other Scouting unit that is minimum size 10...isn't the whole purpose to be cheap march blocking? 100 pts. is far too expensive. Those same 100 pts. would buy me about 6.7 DE Shades, with BS4, M5, LD8, and a much better weapon, and at least they have the OPTION of going with a unit of 5 for 75 pts. without any loss of firepower output when compared to the 10-man Huntsmen unit.

SPECIAL
Great Swords and Pistoliers are improved a bit, but you're still hard pressed to find the Special slots for them. Most tournament players will smartly take 2 Cannons, leaving 2 spots open for Great Swords, Pistoliers, AND NOW IC Knights. Lame.

RARE
The Steam Tank being simplified is ok I guess. T6 seems low, especially logically. Isnt every other War Machine T7? I think the Steam Tank is going to be a very common sight, but unfortunately this will likely mean being dinged in Sports or Comp. The Hellblaster is totally nerfed. It's a slightly better shooting Leadbelcher, without all of the extra benefits like mobility and potential to engage in HTH later in the game. Flagellants losing a point of Toughness makes them even less of a viable choice. Good work. And this Rocket Battery thing is rumored to use the Artillery and Scatter die. Wow, I'm totally down with wasting a rare spot on something that unreliable. :rolleyes

Finally, my "favorite" change was making the Griffon Banner 55 pts. This practically forces the hand of Empire players to totally avoid the EC, since his benefits of allowing a Standard for 1 unit are now nullified, and ANY of the other Lord options are better. Why oh why was this necessary? How many Empire armies were single handedly smashing their opponents with the Griffon Banner? Everyone shot that unit, or tried to avoid it since it was on FOOT to begin with. Nevermind the fact it couldn't pursue. Really, it wasn't broken and helped make up for the fact you needed to field a 3-attack, S4 Lord to get it.

I feel like all of the shit they added, like useless Pigeon Bombs and Grenade Launchers, as well as Outriders that CANT MOVE AND FIRE is just a flashy distraction for less-seasoned WHFB players who don't realize how to actually win games. Not saying the list will be a total waste, but I just feel like for the tournament scene, Empire will remain middle of the pack, or closer to bottom/middle. After the improvements across the board for Dwarves, and the pretty much OVERALL upgrade for the O&G book, perhaps I was expecting more from GW. Maybe after 9 years in the game I should have known better.

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Re: arch lector stats

Postby WickerNipple » Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:02 pm

That's a very common perception these days. We'll see if it plays out.
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Re: arch lector stats

Postby -Jarrett » Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:24 pm

So you don't like what the did with the Archlector, huntsman, and hellblaster? If the griffon banner wasn't making or breaking the list before it wont now...

They fixed the Steam tank, and it's looking like the toughest chariot out there. With 10 wounds. Considering how annoying it was previously - a very poor fit to the game - this is for the better.

The hellblaster was a necessity in many lists in the prior edition. Ideally one rare war machine should not be a staple. Shouldn't be gimped totally like it's rumored to be but hopefully the list will suit a bit more aggressive lists anyway.

The Archlector was an add-on fix to begin with, so going from the 6th book to 7th I'm having trouble seeing this as a fell blow. With the altar ideally he'll have uses. This is at least a remains to be seen in my book...

Huntsmen being 10 points and minimum size 10 is overcompensation for their stapled spot, especially with skirmishers power reduction.

But... Infantry going down is very big! When didn't you see 5x5 blocks previously? For detachments it means but 2 more models if you want the rank bonus, and for 1 point per model cheaper they pay for themselves. Greatswords and pistoliers improving is... well.. an improvement. Having a harder time selecting the hotness to fill 4 special slots is not a bad thing.

My point is that yes, they'll miss opportunities for improvement, but this doesn't spell doom for the book by any means. If you're going to site the Dwarf book's overall improvement, then also take into account all the opportunities they missed there. Generally, the books are getting better, and I think the majority of the rumored changes are looking good. We of course won't know till we know, but I'd hardly throw up my hands because rumors state that it hasn't improved universally.

Of course if you do the army and it sucks you can just drybrush their faces pallid and call it undead. :p
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Re: arch lector stats

Postby -the black prince » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:12 pm

shame about the thoughts re: new empire list: but i guess it shows they're not going for the dreaded codex creep. (or they are and are just too useless to get it right - which is equally possible.)

Personally I'm happy: infantry is cheaper; warrior priests have gotten a boost and I'm curious to play the new outriders, though i doubt they'll be much more effective than a unit of handgunners.
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