tank shock and close combat

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tank shock and close combat

Postby subversive » Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:36 am

can units who are locked in close combat be tank shocked? If so, why? If not, why not
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Re: tank shock and close combat

Postby Flavius Infernus » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:49 am

Tank shock rules just say that they affect "units." A unit locked in close combat is still a "unit," so tank shock affects them normally just like it would any other unit.

This is a case where somebody who wanted a locked unit *not* to be affected would have to show some reason why the general rule (that all units are affected) doesn't apply to locked units specifically. I don't know of any reason for such an exception.
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Re: tank shock and close combat

Postby subversive » Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:12 pm

That's what I thought. Someone else in my club says that they can't be tank shocked because a locked unit "may only make pile in moves," therefore they can't make a move as called for by tank shock. I thought that was kinda thin.

He also brought up the idea that rules in the movement, shooting, assault and morale sections were the "core" rules, and everything else in the game has to specifically make an exception to rules in those sections to over-ride them, which I also had never heard. He said this was the common idea in among "educated" 40K players, whatever that means. Being mostly a WHFB player, and him being a long time player, I had no way to really counter that idea. Anyone have any input on that? (sorry, slightly off topic
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Re: tank shock and close combat

Postby mauleed » Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:08 pm

In 3rd edition you couldn't tank shock any unit in hth. They forgot to include that in this version, so shock away.
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Re: tank shock and close combat

Postby Flavius Infernus » Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:28 pm

In addition to pile-in moves, locked units can also obviously make fall-back moves. Page 48 lists Tank Shock as one of the three reasons why a unit would make a fall back move after failing a morale check (along with losing combat and shooting casualties).

The "core rules" thing is an assumption, and a weak one. There's nothing in the rules that categorizes any group of rules as different from any other.

Some rules are written to apply to units generally, and other rules are more specific, but the general and specific rules are mixed all throughout the rulebook.
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Re: tank shock and close combat

Postby deFl0 » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:19 pm

Yup, I can't find anything that says you can't. Although, I don;t think you can tank shock your own guys so lining it up is a little tricky unless you are using a falcon or something.

This definately opens up a whole world of interesting tactics. Especially for things like slaaneshi rhinos that jack your leadership low. I could also be really useful for armies that are vehicle heavy and trash at short range shooting like mech tua and mech SOBs.

Also, wierd things start to happen. For example tank shock happens in the movement phase, so if a unit falls out the squad in hth can probably assualt them again. Plus I think it really screws up ATSKNF as I don't think they get a chance to auto re group.

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Re: tank shock and close combat

Postby -Thrax » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:47 pm

Yeah, sounds interesting. But, I mean, totally appropriate -- it really boosts an underpowered tactic.

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Re: tank shock and close combat

Postby -Rulesman » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:50 am

The thing for me is that the spirit of the rules tells that you can't attack your own forces under "controlable" circumstances (template deviation or dreads going mad are uncontrolabe to the player). As tanks shock is a type of controlable attack it is dubious to me you can overrun your own troops just because they are in CC with an enemy.
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Re: tank shock and close combat

Postby The Gunslinger » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:37 am

It's not a given that you'd be tank shocking your own units, especially if it's a new combat ... before pile-in moves start mixing everybody up.

Tank shock rocks. I had 2 separate heavy flamer wartrakks (about 40pts each) tank shock (had the right wargear) a unit of 6 stealth suits. BAM!!! Off the table! :D

Thank you Chuck Norris
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Re: tank shock and close combat

Postby Flavius Infernus » Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:46 am

Quote:

The thing for me is that the spirit of the rules tells that you can't attack your own forces under "controlable" circumstances



You don't need to resort to the "spirit of the rules" here. The rules actually overtly *say* that you can't run over your own troops when you tank shock.

But since you only have to contact one enemy model for the whole unit to make a morale check, all you have to do is nick the corner of the base of that one guy sticking out at the edge of the scrum in order to force the check.
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