Juggernaut version 2 comments here

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Re: Juggernaut version 2 comments here

Postby mattbird » Sat May 23, 2009 11:09 am

for comparison's sake, this thing costs as much as a dragon. Just something to consider.
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Re: Juggernaut version 2 comments here

Postby Hashuts Scion » Mon May 25, 2009 1:24 pm

There are a couple of things I have noticed here. These are first thoughts and I will have more once I playtested it a couple of more times. First, there is the idea this is again a deamon possessed warmachine. That being said, the Bull Centaur would then perhaps be a steerer, not a pusher. The deamon is the one propelling itself forward. That would also make in more in line with the hellcannon.

The point cost is 330 points. So what do you get with it? 10 Annihilators as well? If so, that should clearly be stated.

If a character takes it, does it also come with all 10 Annihilators? Doesn't the Stegadon lose its crew? Does it count as a rare choice if a character takes it?
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Re: Juggernaut version 2 comments here

Postby Garrett » Mon May 25, 2009 3:45 pm

Okay, clearly I'm missing something here, because I can't seem to find an updated version of the rules. The link in the General Discussion forum still has the older version 2 of the book.
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Re: Juggernaut version 2 comments here

Postby Hashuts Scion » Mon May 25, 2009 7:39 pm

After rereading the stegadon rules, I have some questions.

The Stegadon is normally a special slot. It comes with 5 skinks as crew. If a character uses it as a mount, he replaces one of the crew and it loses its special slot status. Thus, it could mean I could be facing 7+ stegadons in an army. Now, does our juggernaut follow the same principle? Does a character replace one of the 10 crew, and does it lose its rare status?

I could be missing something, but T7 is a regular stat for warmachines, but T6 is normally the toughest amount for dragons, demons, and the like. So, which is our juggernaut? If there is concern about it breaking, then t7 is about right.
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Re: Juggernaut version 2 comments here

Postby mattbird » Mon May 25, 2009 7:51 pm

Hashuts Scion, those questions all need spelling out in the rulebook, but for now assume it follows all the rules of the stegadon for the above questions.

Garrett, the updated rules are in the version 2 pdf available in the general section
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Re: Juggernaut version 2 comments here

Postby Garrett » Tue May 26, 2009 11:23 am

Yeah, that's the problem, I'm loading the same version of 2 that was first uploaded, and the only thing that's changed is that you've added a name and a description to the demon spit shooting phase ability...I'm clearly having an interwubs issue here.
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Re: Juggernaut version 2 comments here

Postby Aves » Wed May 27, 2009 5:04 pm

Jugger is great idea, and it used to have a model, which makes it even better.

Its a warmachine not chariot, so S7 is not so deadly.

I have doubts about crew, as it only moves 6" and charges 12", but even if it charges its combat effectivenes is doubtfull, moreover, if player decides to charge then he cant breathe, or can he?

The shooting rules are kool, shoting from higher position doesnt help in covering are with shrapnel so 10 S3 shots sounds reasonable, but rules spelling says that it counts as normal shooting weapon, so -1 for long range, -1 for move, not so good. Maby removing this 2 modifiers would be in place?

Also Jugger seems to be failing whenever is charged by enemy, 10 shots in charge response cant be meaningfull, option to direct all attacks at crew means even more points by which jugger will run away. Maby Stubborn, stegadons quoted earlier are stubborn on lower ld but have much higher close combat effectiveness, so having Stubborn could prevent Juggernaut from being run over by static combat result.

Another idea, option of adding Eruption Gun, for a points cost and (40-60) at the expense of a crew (2 to get space and 2 to operate it?) and maby drawbact of reduced impacts to D6 or D3+1, in effect CD would have 2 types of Juggernauts 1 aimed for assaulting enemy position and other as a fire support.
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Re: Juggernaut version 2 comments here

Postby mattbird » Wed May 27, 2009 5:11 pm

Garrett, I think that that is all that was added to the version 2.

Aves, I think it's good that the jugger is at a loss if charged. It needs to have built in drawbacks.
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Re: Juggernaut version 2 comments here

Postby Aves » Wed May 27, 2009 6:10 pm

By the points comparison, 20 human size infantry, light armor, shield hand weapon,
10 shots hitting 5+,
3 hit
wounding on 4+
2 wound

0 saved,

18 models fight on attacker side,

close combat

6 attacks hitting 4+
3hit
wounding on 5+
1 wound
most likely saved

10 responses hitting on 4+
5 hit
wounding on 4+
2,5 wounded
save on 4+
1,25 wounds so probably 1

results

jugger 1

infantry 4

jugger ld test on 6 = les than 50% chances to pass
Infantry with this stats cost half of the jugger points and ise very common sight, there are better infantriels, or calvary which can actually kill some dwarves with s5 or s6 attacks.


Another thing, stegadon had low LD but tests his stubborn on 3d6.
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Re: Juggernaut version 2 comments here

Postby mattbird » Wed May 27, 2009 7:59 pm

yup! it will likely lose to a ranked unit, or a hammer unit, but that's OK. It does a bunch of other things that make up for it. You are assuming, for one, that the unit charged the Jugger, and not vica-versa.

the mobility, impact hits, and 360 arc shooting are awesome.
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